I love the end times

[lustriangod2]

Tomb kings are a beautiful army with so many opportunitys to get some great conversions on the table. The paint schemes are endless and so are the conversions. I welcome the merge of the two factions.

[lustriangod2]

Now if I could get Beastmen to join up with Lizardmen. Now that could be a blast

[HeroZero]

I've literally been through the TK book from cover to cover choice wise and I took them to.many events.

Quite frankly they suck all the balls.

I sold them for a reason.

If you want detailed analysis I can break it down.

 

Special rules

Undead: Double punishment for losing any combat check.

TK march: Can't be done ever. Magic is not marching.

My will be done: It's required for anything too be able to win a fight its a tax. WS5/6 still can't protect you from combat units. Initiative and Strength/Volume of attacks are far more important

 

Lords:

Tomb King: Purely a fun choice or for tomb guard deathstars. Chariot build and sphinx build don't work because crumbling.

 

Liche high priest: A must take. Probably really need two.

Most critical.model in army for every reason. Better known as the completely obvious lynchpin that you must take.

 

Heroes

 

Tomb prince: .A must take in EVERY unit. Keep them cheap. WS5 is that.important to keeping buses alive.

Probably a strong B in grade.

 

Liche priest: a bargain mage, good if bringing a coven or council. Necessary scroll caddy.

 

Necrotect: a must have for combat units luckily there's no combat units he can join other than tomb guard.

 

Tomb Herald: Actually a good choice for magic banner duty. It's called banner of eternal flame. You will take it on archers so suck it up and deal. Otherwise total crap.

 

Core

 

Skeleton warriors: if your running them the unit has a minimum size of 50+ anything less is garbage. Shields and hand weapons only. Their job is to die as slow as possible

 

Skeleton archers: A must have to bunker with. Preferred method is a unit of 40 or 50. Full command and prince, herald and LHP

 

Skeleton horsemen: useless bad. Move on

 

Skeleton horse archers: Must take. Only redirectors that are core, complete suck however

 

Chariots : Must take. The only combat unit in the book the won't break the bank by deathstar tactics.

Units of 4, 6 or 8 are best.

 

Special

 

Tomb guard: horde deathstar only halberds only expect to blow 1000 points here. If that appeals they can earn points. 40 is as small as you can go.

 

Ushabti: Great bows only. Great weapons are strictly inferior ogres. Bows do work despite crap BS. Expensive dollar wise. 2 units of eight. To make good.

 

Carrion: must own flying ogres. Your real warmachine hunters. This choice is always 1+

 

Sphinx: mediocrity at work. A cannon magnet. Always bring two if taken. Always have fiery breath. Not good but not bad.

 

Swarms: garbage.

 

Knights: must own for any combat ability. Units of 4 are best. Mediocre in combat but they aren't awful. Outshone by chariots in every way.

 

Stalkers: random garbage

 

Scorpions: actually terrible. Crumble exists. Poor at everything you want them to do.

 

Rare

 

Catapults: bring two or.none. actually one of the few units to do damage.

 

Casket: a must bring. TK are entirely dependent on magic. Not a choice

 

Hierotitan: you must bring one. It's that required. You probably should bring two as a redundancy. He does subsist entirely on a diet of cannon balls.

 

Necrosphinx: good but bad at monster hunting. Go figure.

 

Colossus: good in duo/ trios as bargain can openers with great weapons. Garbage otherwise.

 

 

Suggested army compostion

 

Liche High priest lvl 4 Nehekhara, Earthing rod, talisman of 4+ ward

 

Tomb prince: Great Weapon

Tomb prince: Great Weapon, Chariot

 

Tomb Herald: Great weapon, BSB, Banner of Eternal Flame

 

Tomb Prince: lvl 2 death, dispel scroll, horse.

Tomb Prince lvl 2 death, power scroll, horse

 

Core

 

40 Skeleton Archers, FC

5 skeleton Horse archers, Mus

5 Skeleton Horse archers, Mus

8 chariots, FC, Banner of swiftness

3 chariots, STD

 

4 NecroKnights

4 NecroKnights

3 carrion

3 carrion

 

Casket of souls

Hierotitan

Hierotitan

[AgentP]

Well, I will be combining my TK with some ethereal units, that awesome Neferata model out next week, a coven throne, and some ghouls for a Lahmian themed army. 

[Brother Glacius]

damnit...I traded my TK for beastmen a while back...now I gotta get some TK units for my new undead legions. :)

[Talapas]

I am one of the few who don't like the end times that much. I think it would have served the community better if it was an optional rule set similar to storm of magic, but it is what it is so we have to get used to it I suppose.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I am one of the few who don't like the end times that much. I think it would have served the community better if it was an optional rule set similar to storm of magic, but it is what it is so we have to get used to it I suppose.

Have you seen the rules yet?

[Talapas]

I have. Not a fan of combined armies, or of all armies having access to summoning undead or of character percentage increases. I also don't like removing the crumble from losing the general. I don't mind occasional games with those rules, but not them being a regular part of the game.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Don't like the idea of All Armies having access to undead and the Lord point allowance should really only change when you bring a Big Lord not every list.

[Brother Glacius]

Actually, it is about time for that rule to be gone. Fear is no where near as powerful as it once was. The undead are pretty suck-tastic across the board in combat (yes, there are a few stand out units). I've played a few games where there was no way to keep up with my losses...especially since you can't recast anymore. Against an army like WoC, forget it. In other words, it was far too detrimental. Especially with miscasts being so common. I lost plenty of games just because I rolled box cars (even trying to be careful and only casting on two dice), and my general got sucked into the warp.

 

Basically, it just wasn't needed. So I'm glad to see it gone. Honestly, if your general goes, you are pretty screwed already...you don't need the crumbling on top of that. This will open up more styles of play, which is a good thing.

[HeroZero]

Amen Brother G.

Doubled punished undead is stupid.

Must be in 12 of general to march

Crumble if he dies

Double CR loses

All for the "benefit of unbreakable and fear"

 

Please.

 

I hate the idea of oh no the boss died we all go away now.

At least let another character take over until you run out of characters then begin crumbles.

[Hobbitron]

8th is what killed undead the most. All of a sudden non undead armies could have steadfast units. Steadfast is generally better than undead. You trade unbreakable for stubborn, and don't crumble. I figured the LEAST they could do is spread some sort of steadfast rule to undead units. If you would qualify for steadfast, then you don't crumble for instance. Or you only crumble 2d6 minus leadership (taking a little bit from unstable for demons).

 

I haven't kept up on Fantasy much, but the remerging of VC and TK could turn out nicely. Though I'm curious to see how a possible drop of 9th plays into this.

[MexicanNinja]

They still have neat tricks and can bring some unique units to the table.

 

I have to disagree about 8th killing tk/vc.  I am the exact opposite, I think 8th evened them out.  I played VC in 7th and you couldn't stop the res spam and most games were over before they started because you could get the unit of 20 ghouls to 50 real quick and your opponent would never kill the unit before the game ended.

 

Also, fear changed tremendously, not just with undead, but all the armies who relied on them.

[Don't Panic]

just some clarification, this is a supplement right?  as in you can choose to play with the new undead rules but its like SoM where its a choice to add rather than its implied in every game?  i like it, it looks fun but im a little concerned as well. im also one of the few that is against the merging of armies.  i really dislike that idea(not too much for a logical reason, just preference).  seems like just a typical GW business ploy to get people to buy more models and books while creating fewer books and models.... but maybe im just a cynic :)

[Brother Glacius]

Well, remember that the Undead used to be one book. GW eventually stripped out the TK and just had vamps...and then eventually brought back TK as their own. I don't have my book yet, but I'm pretty excited about it. I really liked several of my TK models, but didn't care for the army as a whole. So now I can get those models back and run them with my VC...win!

[Talapas]

just some clarification, this is a supplement right? as in you can choose to play with the new undead rules but its like SoM where its a choice to add rather than its implied in every game? i like it, it looks fun but im a little concerned as well. im also one of the few that is against the merging of armies. i really dislike that idea(not too much for a logical reason, just preference). seems like just a typical GW business ploy to get people to buy more models and books while creating fewer books and models.... but maybe im just a cynic :)

Most of what I have heard and read seems to point to this as not an optional supplement but to treat it as new rules.

[MexicanNinja]

I'm in agreeance with Talapas. Everything I've read across the webs have been showing this as a new rule set.

[wisetiger7]

People can always choose to play one style or the other though... If rumors of 9th ed being skirmish only are true (which I hope to the gods they aren't), I'll still be playing 8th. If I wanted round bases, I'll go play Infinity. 8th ed is strong enough to persist through a drastic change-up of rules if they are doing away with larger-scale battles. I don't foresee myself just packing up and selling my stuff just because the new edition doesn't play to what I like. I'm sure there will be plenty of players playing 8th when all is said and done, if that is the case.

[MexicanNinja]

Yo are correct; however, I think it was more of a question falling in line with "does my opponent need to ask me if his vc/tk army is ok to play against". If they are now part of the core rule system then those options are open for open playing and events where the organizer doesn't restrict the book.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Yo are correct; however, I think it was more of a question falling in line with "does my opponent need to ask me if his vc/tk army is ok to play against". If they are now part of the core rule system then those options are open for open playing and events where the organizer doesn't restrict the book.

Yep, just like special characters.

 

Sucky part is to get the rules is not cheap enough for buying just for the rules alone. Players will need to be ready with their books book marked for games because a lot of questions will be asked.

[Iraf]

I like the combined Undead list.  I think it will be nice to see some competitive non-cookie cutter Tomb King lists.  Plus it will give me an excuse to dust off my VC.  I lost many a game because my general died to a 2-3 dice dimensional cascade and crumbled all my chaff and hexwraiths.  Glad that wont happen anymore.

 

On a different note, my friend Ian pointed out the fluff is crazy.  I guess tons of named characters are dying left and right.  Time to open up the first volume and see what's going on.  Sounds like Dwarfs, Brets and Woodelves need to brush up on the prayer rites.

[McNathanson]

I think that since we as a community try to balance the game and avoid Rock/Scissor/Paper army builds, it means that more options generally just make the game more fun.  I don't really see a big importance to points restrictions or separation of selections or other constraints, as long as it doesn't get abused.  Given that there are PLENTY of ways to abuse even the current rules to make the game no fun, I guess I still trust that the community will adjust and keep it fun, so I'm excited to see the new models and new choices... very cool!

That said, no Bretonnia?! :( :( :(

[MexicanNinja]

NtK, you hit it on the mark.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

So I don't have the book but I did get the battle magic cards to see what the lore of Undeath does. Wow, nasty stuff will be thrown down. (Clever way to get more players to buy more models.)

 

Now for those that have the book I have to ask, it says on GW's website Any caster can use the lore of Undeath, so is this another lore to go with the other battle magic lores in the core book or is it special. And does anyone see these spells being OP? I am still on the fence on its power level since most of the spell have a high casting cost for the more powerful summonings.

 

Will anyone be using the lore of Undeath in their non-Undeath armies? I do have a hard time seeing these mages in HE, WE and Empire armies though. Witch Hunters and Pheniox Guards would be slaughtering their own mages before they go after the enemy.

[MexicanNinja]

The thing to remember murphy is that unless you're using nagash that you're not getting a terrorgiest out until after you have a substantial amount of tokens out. The main thing is that you get units that give up zero vp. I don't think it a very threatening lore.