OFCC List - What would you play against?

[Gorgosaurusrex]

I'm torn between 3 different lists for OFCC. I'm aiming for a 2 on each of these but the Astra Militarum list is probably a 3 due to the Baneblade and mass armor. What would you guys want play against?

 

 

 

1. Farsight Enclaves with Skysweep Missile Defense:

 

Dawnblade Contingent

Contingent Headquarters

Commander Farsight (Warlord) 165

Crisis Suit Bodyguard 306

-Shas'vre with Plasma Rifle, Flamer, Shield Generator

-Shas'vre with Plasma Rifle, Flamer, Shield Generator, 2 Shield Drones

-Shas'vre with Plasma Rifle, Cyclic Ion Blaster, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector

-Shas'vre with 2 Flamers, Target Lock
 

Retaliation Cadre

Commander with Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blades, Vectored Retro-Thrusters, Target Lock, 2 Shield Drones 169

Riptide with Ion Accelerator, Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Bonding Knife Ritual 186

Broadside with High-Yield Missile Pod, Smart Missile System, Seeker Missile, 2 Missile Drones, Bonding Knife Ritual 98

5 Crisis Suits with 2 Missile Pods, Bonding Knife Ritual 265

3 Crisis Suits with Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, 1 Target Lock; 2 Shield Drones, Bonding Knife Ritual 158

3 Crisis Suits with Plasma Rifle and Fusion Blaster; 2 Gun Drones, Bonding Knife Ritual 183

 

Skysweep Missile Defense

Devilfish    80

Sky Ray Gunship with Smart Missile System and Disruption Pod 130

Sky Ray Gunship with Smart Missile System and Disruption Pod 130

Sky Ray Gunship with Smart Missile System and Disruption Pod 130

 

2,000

 

 

2. Farsight Enclaves with Counterstrike Cadre:

 

Dawn Blade Contingent

Contingent Headquarters

Commander Farsight 165 (Warlord)

Crisis Suit Bodyguard 306

-Shas'vre with Plasma Rifle, Flamer, Shield Generator

-Shas'vre with Plasma Rifle, Flamer, Shield Generator, 2 Shield Drones

-Shas'vre with Plasma Rifle, Cyclic Ion Blaster, Airbursting Fragmentation Projector

-Shas'vre with 2 Flamers, Target Lock
 

Retaliation Cadre

Commander with Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Fusion Blades, Vectored Retro-Thrusters, Target Lock, 2 Shield Drones 169

Riptide with Ion Accelerator, Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Early Warning Override, Velocity Tracker 210

Broadside with High-Yield Missile Pod, Smart Missile System, Seeker Missile, Bonding Knife Ritual 74

2 Crisis Suits with Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster, Bonding Knife Ritual 84

3 Crisis Suits with Twin-Linked Missile Pods, Bonding Knife Ritual 129

3 Crisis Suits with Twin-Linked Plasma Rifle, Bonding Knife Ritual 129

 

Counterstrike Cadre

Fire Warrior Breacher Team (10)  Shas’ui with Guardian Drone, Bonding Knife Ritual, Devilfish 202

Fire Warrior Strike Team (10) with Pulse Rifles, Bonding Knife Ritual, Devilfish with Smart Missile System 190

Fire Warrior Strike Team (5) -Pulse Rifles, Bonding Knife Ritual, Smart Missile System Turret, Devilfish with Smart Missile System 150

Pathfinder Team (6) -Bonding Knife Ritual, Recon Drone, Devilfish with Smart Missile System 190
 

2,000

 

 

3. Astra Militarum with a Baneblade: (Valhallans)

 

Battlegroup Hammerblow

Company Command Squad -2 Meltaguns, Chimera with Multi-Laser and Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter 145

Platoon Command Squad -2 Flamers, Lascannon, Chimera with Multi-Laser and Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter 125

Infantry Squad  with Flamer, Lascannon, Chimera with Multi-Laser and Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter 140

Infantry Squad  with Flamer, Lascannon, Chimera with Multi-Laser and Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolter 140

Scout Sentinel Squadron -3 with Autocannon & Hunter-Killer Missile 150

5 Tempestus Scions  with 2 Meltaguns 90

Valkyrie with 2 Multiple Rocket Pods 135

3 Leman Russ Battle Tanks with Hull-Mounted Heavy Bolters 450

Baneblade with two sets of Lascannon & Twin-Linked Heavy Bolter Sponsons 625

2,000

[AbusePuppy]

I have never really had a good grasp on what mysterious processes motivate the OFCC ratings, but that last list sure doesn't feel like a '3' to me. Baneblade, sure, but it's far from the best superheavy and you're using one of the weaker Russ variants as well as a variety of suboptimal other units (mech'd Infantry Squads, Scions, Sentinels, Valkyrie, etc.) It's arguably a bit stronger than the others, but I wouldn't rate it as a tournament-quality list or anything.

[PourSpelur]

Is one list painted better or have an emotional attachment?

If so, that's probably the better choice.

[JMGraham]

Is one list painted better or have an emotional attachment?

If so, that's probably the better choice.

 

This.

[Lord Hanaur]

 I'd choose the Baneblade list as the one I'd prefer to play against.  But all of those are unusual fits for you.

 

The Baneblade is the friendliest list.  So if it fits with the ratings your team is shooting for, do that one.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I have never really had a good grasp on what mysterious processes motivate the OFCC ratings, but that last list sure doesn't feel like a '3' to me. Baneblade, sure, but it's far from the best superheavy and you're using one of the weaker Russ variants as well as a variety of suboptimal other units (mech'd Infantry Squads, Scions, Sentinels, Valkyrie, etc.) It's arguably a bit stronger than the others, but I wouldn't rate it as a tournament-quality list or anything.

 

 

 I'd choose the Baneblade list as the one I'd prefer to play against.  But all of those are unusual fits for you.

 

The Baneblade is the friendliest list.  So if it fits with the ratings your team is shooting for, do that one.

 

Wait, you both chose the same list citing conflicting reasons.  

[AbusePuppy]

Wait, you both chose the same list citing conflicting reasons.  

 

I don't mean to blow your mind, but there are a lot of things that LH and I don't agree on.

[InfestedKerrigan]

How about this.  How do you see it as the strongest of the lists?

 

LH, how do you see it as the weakest of the lists?

 

Not trying to be problematic.  Trying to understand different views.  :)

[AbusePuppy]

It's essentially a process of elimination for me. The first two (Tau) lists are taking a LOT of really weak upgrades- Shield Generators/Drones on the suits, mixed weapon loadouts (Plasma + Flamer, etc) on the same, and some suits having only one weapon such that they can't take advantage of the Multitracker. While there certainly are some good things you can say about the lists as well- the Retaliation Cadre is a very strong formation when used right and HYMP Broadsides are one of the best units in the game, especially when they're Relentless- those factors can only carry you so far. But with unusual weapon/support loadouts, very limited Markerlight support (maximum six in 2K points, with even those mounted on platforms that want dedicated fire priorities), zero melee solutions outside of Farsight himself, and mediocre morale as well as scoring potential. I see both of the Tau armies as struggling to do enough damage to really scare most lists while not having the resilience to really last through a game and take objectives (or, in a Maelstrom mission, have the forward presence to go out and get distant objectives, as Tau really don't like being in charge range of the enemy.)

 

Though the IG list has a lot of problems with it- some of which I touched on before- it has in its favor fact that a fair number of armies will struggle to deal with 18HP worth of AV14 vehicles, the two Tau lists being amongst them, for examble. (The Tau have Fusion, of course, but good model placement and bubble-wrapping will prevent them from being able to make much use of it without getting SUPER lucky on Deep Strikes- even with Farsight around.) The Baneblade and Leman Russ, for all their flaws, are still big shooty tanks that are immune to most weapons and have pretty good numbers on their main guns. Though a lot of your weaker elements might get chopped up, most "typical" OFCC lists will lack the dedicated anti-tank to handle such big targets easily- you won't see massed drop Melta, Haywire, Str D, or Grav at such an event, at least in theory. (Of course, past years have proven this woefully untrue, but that's a whole other discussion.) You are unlikely to face such an army- and especially so because of the pairing system- so the list's most glaring weakness is mitigated.  That's essentially the crux of it- the IG list has weaknesses that can be worked around, whereas the Tau lists weaknesses are fairly broad-reaching and their strengths middling at best.

[Gorgosaurusrex]

Thanks for the analysis, AP. My worry was having 18 HP of AV14. I know it's not a tournament list but it could be tough for some armies to crack due to the large quantity of armor.

 

Farsight, the bodyguard, the Commander, the Riptide, and the Broadside are modeled after The Eight which is why they have such unusual equipment. I tried to make the real Eight formation work but I couldn't within 2,000 points.

 

I think I might take the Astra Militarum. It's half painted which is a good start, and it's the army I wanted to take to OFCC last year but couldn't get painted in time. Plus VALHALLANS ARE AWESOME.

 

EDIT: For those who aren't familiar with it, here are the rules for the Battlegroup Hammerblow formation:

Advance and Hold: All Infantry units in Battlegroup Hammerblow have the Objective Secure and Stubborn special rules. Close Range Fire Support: All weapons fired by Battlegroup Hammerblow’s Baneblade and Leman Russ Squadrons have the Twin-Linked special rule as long as the target unit is within 12” of another unit from this formation. Rapid Response: Battlegroup Hammerblow units of Militarium Tempestus Scions must begin the game embarked upon the Valkyrie. Instead of making a normal reserve roll for the formation’s Valkyrie must enter from Deep Strike Reserve, and doesn’t scatter if placed within 12” of this Battlegroup’s Scout Sentinel Squadron.

[fluger]

AP, your analysis of the list is why it would be a 3, as it is an extreme list, therefore it makes matchups problematic, that's why I have handed out 3s in the past for lists that aren't tournament powerful, but, in the context of OFCC, might present serious issues.  If Chex ends up playing against 5 teams that all have a player that has a good mix of anti tank shooting that balances the line between not too much so that they don't just erase the big tanks with little effort or so little that those tanks are effectively immune to damage; then he'll have a great OFCC and 5 great games.  But, the odds are that he'll pair up with 1 or maybe 2 (or more!) teams that just don't have a list with the right mix of stuff one way or the other, and games will end up being lopsided.  

[Gorgosaurusrex]

...and games will end up being lopsided.  

 

This was my worry. I know my past OFCC lists could deal with mass AV14 but many of my opponents would not be able to. I might change up the list to drop some armor - but then I can't take the cool formation :(

[fluger]

To be clear, I don't think the list is even remotely approaching too strong for OFCC.

[Gorgosaurusrex]

Well that makes me feel a bit better. I think I'll leave it as-is with only some wargear changes. I'm captaining a team again this year so I'll have a direct interaction with matchups.

[Edosaurus Rex]

I voted for your second Tau list on the poll, but the more I think about it the more I think you should run the IG list. I mean you've wanted to take your Valhallans to OFCC for the last two years but could never get them painted up in time... I think this is a great motivation for you to finish them and make them look outstanding!

 

On the other hand, OFCC would also be a great reason for you to get your new Tau army painted so that way you have another fully painted army to use... but maybe you should finish your Valhallans before moving to another project.

 

Also, if you want to change up the models in your IG list you could also take some allied Space Wolves! I mean your Wolves are based to match your Valhallans so it would still look really nice and give you a few more fun options with your unit choices. Just food for thought!

[Lord Hanaur]

I am a Tau general and I recognize the threat of his other lists, whereas those who don't play Tau may not see it quite as readily.

 

But in any event, for Friendliness sake, the Baneblade is a big drain on points and while it WILL be a mismatch against a very limited number of lists, the Captains won't allow that to happen probably.  So I think that the Baneblade list will be fine, because it can be paired against an army with the means to defeat it (a pretty fair number of meltas for example or against the equally nasty Wraith Knight and so on).

 

Anywho that's my opinion, EdGreg

 

Edit:  Also, lots of armies that are OFCC-like will still have meltas.  As long as Wraith Knights are coming, so are Meltas.  I guess battle Companies kind of got told to stay home in the actual List Rating guidelines so that's cool.  But melta spam isn't "weird" to see.  Down right necessary.

[Gorgosaurusrex]

Valhallans it is! I'll just make sure I get paired with armies that can take on some armor. Ironically my list has a tough time with AV14. I have 4 Meltaguns and 2 templates from the Baneblade, that should be enough.

 

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

[fluger]

As an example, Chex.  If your team played mine, I wouldn't play your list with my Armored Company as I think my ability to deal with your AV14 is superior to yours.  

[Xavier319]

IG with baneblade. Here's why. IG are fun.. you both get to kill lots of stuff, so even if you lose, you get to look at a pile of dead stuff and grin. and baneblades are very fairly costed, and if you take it out, you feel like you just took out something truly massive and powerful. Generally IG are a good time, win or lose.

 

That and i'm tired of fighthing tau, to be honest.

[fluger]

The baneblade is so reasonably costed it isn't funny.  

[WestRider]

As an example, Chex.  If your team played mine, I wouldn't play your list with my Armored Company as I think my ability to deal with your AV14 is superior to yours.  

I would totally be down to take that on if the matchup does happen. Especially if we get a table with some good Urban terrain. Could be a really cool game of cat and mouse there, trying to get Eversors in close enough before someone manages to draw a bead with a Battle Cannon.

[fluger]

It would be an interesting game I'd think.