JMGraham Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Walk without rhythm. Nice :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 It's the mawloc attack a shooting or melee attack? It does not say and it matters when deep striking under artillery. We diced it off since it is not clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Technically it is not either, but it is resolved like a shooting attack, so I would say you use the rules as though it was "shooting" at artillery. (Terror from the Deep is even mentioned in an example in the shooting section, under Random Allocation, although the example no longer applies.) Generally speaking, anything that is not explicitly a close combat attack is resolved like a shooting attack- so abilities like Terror, or an explosion from a vehicle, or other such effects would all get done the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacewolved Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 So just watched a battle report with the new nids. Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQQGcgJ5PZ0 There is some cursing so nsfw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 So right out the gate, after reading this coidex my mind immediately went to the Hive Crones and Exocrines. The Exocrines can take out a Quad gun pretty fast once it's in place and in range. The Hive Crones can follow and nuclear strike most flyers with ease, almost as easily as the Crimson Hunter does perhaps. The Hive Crone is still quite effective against normal ground targets, though that is not its primary function. Nonetheless it can smash isolated ground vehicles pretty nicely afterwards. I think this a real winner. The Exocrine is a foul thing that isn't very sturdy in the grand scheme of things, but then, that's what the horde of bugs is FOR: Keep em busy and form a screen that the Venomthropes can enhance. The other thing you need for a list is definitely (it seems to me) venomthropes. Synapse is pretty important so that'll have to be a priority issue methinks. I was musing and thinking that a nice core for a Tyranid force would be: 2 Hive Crones 3 Venomthropes (Cause yeah...Awesome) 2 Exocrine (Act like less disappointing Vindicators pretty much when you think about it) Hive Tyrant (synapse) 2 30 Termagaunt Broods (Devourers) 1 30 Hormagaunt brood (Screening force) Broodlord and his buddies Genestealer buddies to pin down important units early and maybe even eat them) Brood of Shrikes with Devourers (for Synapse and fortitude at the weaker points in the line) 2 Mawlocs (Because Line breaker and uber fun DUNE effect. I can chat "Shai-Hulud" every time it surfaces) Can someone tell me how many points that would be. FEELS like 2K but I dont have the codex with me to confirm it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 I don't think full broods of Devilgaunts is the way to go- you're allowed to mix weapons in a squad now, so taking 15-20 Termagants and then filling out the rest with Devilgaunts behind them is a good way to have enough bodies to soak casualties, but still have a lot of firepower once you get in range. Exocrines are pretty excellent, yeah. I need to get mine built so I can see if it's possible for them to have cover behind an Aegis Line, but my intuition is that they won't be able to, so you'll need something else. The models you listed, assuming no other upgrades, are about 2100pts give or take. however, as Mawlocs and Exocrines are both HS units, it's not a legal list. You're really short on Synapse, having only the Tyrant and Shrikes, neither of which is very durable- I would at the very least make it a Flyrant or give it some Tyrant Guard. to make sure it stays alive. Also, Lictors to guide in the Mawlocs could be very helpful- Infiltrate in, move + run forward (or assault if you're going second and the distance isn't too bad) and you're actually pretty close to the enemy on T2 when the Mawloc arrives. If you hit the dirt, you probably end up with a 2+ cover save and HnR can scoot you all over the field if you're lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 1St thing I noticed about your list lord was lack of synapse. Seems like that is a big weak point is synapse sources. What is the going number, 3+ units. At 2moro seems like 4 would be my go to. 2 on both flanks or 2 vanguard such as fmc and 2 walking in back. How does stubborn interact with sitw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Stubborn models ignore penalties when making Morale or Pinning tests, so they won't suffer the -3 when making those rolls; they will still have it for psychic tests, regroup tests, Fear tests, and anything that refers to the Leadership value directly (such as Psychic Shriek/Scream.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 More than anything else I think the heavy slot will dictate the lists this time around. I think there will be lists from spamming: Carnifex Biovores Maybe exocrines ( I think they are too expensive though, I hope I'm wrong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Yeah, HS is the new Elites. Played against Pumpkinhead yesterday and saw him play against Koyote as well. My thoughts are that synapse is a BIG deal. Deathleaper was really nasty IMO as well. He lowered my farseer to a Ld7 psyker, and I didn't get a power off in the first three turns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisruptiveConduct Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Venomthrope's spore cloud only gives MODELS within 6" shrouded, not the entire unit. So decent but still not the fifth ed venomthrope and not an auto include for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 But Shrouded affects the whole Unit as long as at least one Model has it. They do actually work, for a wonder. I need to proxy a Hive Crone or two and try them for a while. They're potentially in kind of an awkward place, with the limitation to two shooting attacks per Turn, along with their fragility. But if I can generally get rid of all the Missiles before they're in position to Vector Strike, part of that problem goes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Thanks abuse. I don't see venomthrope worth it. Yeah you can screen to give him 3+, but with crap armour save, generic t4 and your opponents ability to reduce cover seems like points wasted. Especially since it is models in range. I can just ignore cover boosts on units with models out if I don't have cover as a 6" bubble is small. Plus if you turtle into 6" now I am facing pie plates. Seems like 6 biovores is a solid investment. Good way to clear troops. Big fail is they need a node to stay by and there is not a cheap one worth it. Tervigon might be best option. I guessif you fill out your hs you might leave a node behind. At least nids will be fun to play against, it will be a game of how many I can get to cross the line. All speculation for, I get to pick up dex tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Maybe nids will do better by not allowing optional rules. That way you have no allies for armies or other crazy big stuff that is difficult for them to handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisruptiveConduct Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Ahh...i see. Venonthrompe spore cloud is decent then. Am I wrong in thinking that if one model in a unit has assault gernades, the entire unit counts as having them when assaulting? I am still looking through the BRB to confirm this. Something that no one has mentioned yet, but i love, is the new Tyrant Guard Shield Wall rule (Hive tyrant/swarmy autopass look out sir rolls). That is super nice considering you needed to roll 4+ in the last codex. We still have the same issue with Swarmy and Tyrant guard that we had before. If Swarmy had Warp Speed, he had fleet but his tyrant guard did not. Now the tyrant guard get access to fleet via adrenal glands, but Swarmy cant get Warp Speed or adrenal glands. Talk about late to the party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Assault Grenades work on a model-by-model basis. Pg.61 specifies that "Models with Assault Grenades..." You've been nerfing yourself on LOS. It got FAQed so it worked on 2+ for Tyrants and Guards. Automatic is better, but it's not that big of an improvement. Well, unless you roll 1s like I do when you're on your last Wound ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Mass fleet is nice for first turn and anything that assaults. In a way everything's speed increased for a premimum. Fleet is awesome for assault models. Grenades are better though :-( I am excited to try new dex just doesn't feel like a big change to dex. I know we were all hoping for ew to return. I think ew for just synapse creatures would have been huge. I am sure they thought t6 was good enough. Prime IC sounds decent for that horde node that is just hard to remove. Am I right that he is t5 armour 4? No book powers and only one chart, come on eldar got 2 and book powers. The lack of variety is just sad. I hope the supplement offers a second chart. I hate that at this point I am more excited about next weeks supplement. I was stoked for farsight for fluff more than rules. Also nids need double foc, a supplement will likely open that. I say this more for balance than cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 The Prime is T5, 3+ save Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 I am not sure how much 3+ will make but its something. At leas I can hide him from grav guns in gaunt brood. Put him in fex brood and they are done for. How many invul saves do we get? any outside assault? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Reading on the internets and new dex and I am trying to hash out the spore mines. If you miss and you get to place mines on the table: Do you place D3 mines, OR d3 mines per biovore in the unit? The entree says the mines go up to a maximum of S10, but if you only get to place D3 mines, that is a moot point. If you get to place D3 mines per biovore, then the maximum str 10 makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 I am not sure how much 3+ will make but its something. At leas I can hide him from grav guns in gaunt brood. Put him in fex brood and they are done for. How many invul saves do we get? any outside assault? The only invulns are the swarmlord in CC and the zoanthropes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 Most post so far imply d3 per bio which seems nice, cool you can move, but how do you make them work sitting in back out of los? What are the best synapse options for them. I didn't see anything cheap enough to sit back out los with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 A Zthrope is 50 pts... not super cheap, but a possible baby sitter. I never left my biovores in the back, I always kept them moving with the back line. I am guessing I will keep them near the exocrine and its baby sitter as it moves up to the 24" line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisruptiveConduct Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 the multiple barrage rules on page 34 of BRB state to determine the placement of the first marker and then roll scatter for the remaining shots. the biovores fire all at the same time as a brood. The Spore mine launchers special rule, Spore Burst, reads "If, when the final position of the FIRST blast marker in the barrage is determined, there are no models under it, place D3 spore mine models anywhere under the blast marker..." So we have BRB telling us to determine first placement then scatter remaining shots. we have codex saying determine first placement then place models if a miss but gives us no continuation for the reminaider of the shots. also, missed biovore spore mine placement happens in the shooting phase. they only way to explode them is by assaulting a unit and surviving overwatch. i'm thinking they can assault the turn they are placed via spore mine launcher? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AscentStudios Posted January 12, 2014 Report Share Posted January 12, 2014 So I did the Pepsi Challenge with my last 5th edition list (deep-strike heavy bug list, "Dropship Buggers") with the new codex to see how things worked out points wise. Everything in the list with an * is Deep Striking; ** means it Deep Strikes and doesn't count against the Reserves limit. Here's the result: 2000/2000 “Dropship Buggers” List V3 - 5th Edition [190] Tervigon (160) + Scything Talons (5) + Catalyst (15) + Toxin Sacs (10) [190] Tervigon (160) + Scything Talons (5) + Catalyst (15) + Toxin Sacs (10) [100] 2 Hive Guard (100) [100] 2 Hive Guard (100) [130] Doom of Mal’antai (90) + Spore (40)** [200] 20 Hormagaunts (120) + Toxin Sacs (40) + Mycetic Spore (40)** [240] 4 Warriors [120] + Lashwhip/bonesword [60] + Toxin Sacs [20] + Mycetic Spore (40)** [175] 5 Raveners (150) + Rending Claws (25)* [250] Trygon Prime (200) + Prime (40) + Toxin Sacs (10)* [210] Trygon (200) + Toxin Sacs (10)* [135] 3 Biovores [70] Aegis Defense Line (50) + Comms Array (20) 2000/2000 Dropship Buggers Update for 6th Ed codex [210] Tervigon (195) + Adrenal Glands (15) [130] Deathleaper [110] 2 Hive Guard [110] 2 Hive Guard [150] 30 Hormagaunts [210] Tervigon (195) + Adrenal Glands (15) [120] 30 Termagants [210] 6 Raveners (180) + Rending Claws (30)* [120] 20 Gargoyles* [240] Trygon Prime (230) + Toxin Sacs (10)* [240] Trygon Prime (230) + Toxin Sacs (10)* [80] 2 Biovores [70] Aegis Defense Line (50) + Comms Array (20) This list is an approximation of the previous codex using the new rules of the 6th ed codex. Markedly weaker in terms of psychic power, though I only ever used Catalyst in the list. Obviously, I had to drop the Doom and both pods, and I chose to drop the warriors cause they'd now need to slog down the field in order to do anything (e.g. they'd do nothing unless they came out of a tunnel). In the final estimation I lost: * Doom of Malantai * 2 Pods * 4 Warriors * 1 Biovore * Poison on Hormagaunts And I gained: * Deathleaper * 30 Termagants * Scoring Tervigon * 20 Gargoyles * 10 Hormagaunts Overall assessment: Pretty much a wash. Flyers give me fits, as they always have (Flyrants never fixed my antiair problems). Losing reliable Catalyst sucks donkey's balls, as it was critical for keeping either the Tervigons or the Trygons alive into the late game, where they start wrecking havoc in the enemy lines - here's hoping for 1's on the Psychic table! The drop in Horm points makes a larger brood nearly statistically identical to a smaller, poisoned brood of the same size in terms of damage vs MEQ, with the added bonus of the new Bounding Leap and more bodies to suck up wounds coming in. Deathleaper is a nice addition for this list thanks to the vastly improved Deep Strike Accuracy for Trygons, Gargoyles and Raveners, and combined with DSing Shadow in the Warp should help nail down annoying psychic dominance. Changes and Updates: Things I would probably change in this list is to make it even faster. Dropping 1 Tervigon, Deathleaper, Horms and Gargoyles would let me add 2 dakka flyrants + 2 Crones, giving me greater speed and anti-air capacity, plus the forward synapse I need for a list like this plus it provides a great deal more opportunities to use Deep Strike and Reserves freely. Now that Tervs spawn their broods at the end of movement, Outflanking with them via Hive Commander and spawning scoring units becomes a thing again. This list's downsides are significantly greater reliance on the Terv to keep me in the objective scoring game, and less-reliable Reserves rolls due to the loss of the Aegis + Comms Array (no one is back there to run it anymore). So I expect it will need some tweaking but IF I'm willing to put more money into my bugs this would be where I'd be leading: 2000/2000 Dropship Buggers – New for 6th Ed codex [250] Tyrant (165) + Wings (35) + 2 x Devourers with Brainleech (30) + Hive Commander (20)* [230] Tyrant (165) + Wings (35) + 2 x Devourers with Brainleech (30)* [110] 2 Hive Guard [110] 2 Hive Guard [210] Tervigon (195) + Adrenal Glands (15) + Electroshock Grubs (10)* [120] 30 Termagants [210] 6 Raveners (180) + Rending Claws (30)* [155] Hive Crone* [155] Hive Crone* [240] Trygon Prime (230) + Toxin Sacs (10)* [200] Trygon (190) + Toxin Sacs (10)* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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