pretre Posted January 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 The FSR idea is a really good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Yeah, I've got a number of ideas for using the FSR with Nids. Especially with the Stronghold Assault updates to the Building Rules, where you can Charge out of them. The only reason there's an argument about Venomthropes is that people aren't reading the Shrouded Rule in the Main Rulebook. It clearly affects the whole Unit as long as at least one Model has it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 I, for one, would love to see Tyranid fortifications modeled as Imperial fortifications. Manned by an Imperial Guardsman. With a hole in the back of his head for the 'Nids to "access", ala Starship troopers (the movie). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busbina Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 I , for one, welcome our new insect overlords. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jollyork Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 I, for one, would love to see Tyranid fortifications modeled as Imperial fortifications. Manned by an Imperial Guardsman. With a hole in the back of his head for the 'Nids to "access", ala Starship troopers (the movie). Perhaps you already mean this, but it would be cool for the Fortification to be the creature accessing the IG's brains. Like their guns that are the smart beasty riding a dumb carrier beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 I, for one, would love to see Tyranid fortifications modeled as Imperial fortifications. Manned by an Imperial Guardsman. With a hole in the back of his head for the 'Nids to "access", ala Starship troopers (the movie). Only concern from this great idea is if the IG occupy too much space and it limits the models that you can place on the battlements. -Pax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swoop Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 I feel the firestorm redoubt is much better, at least more resilient, AA than the crone. I think we need to look at the actual wording on shrouding, I believe shrouding is an inclusive rule. I read in an article by Reece that, and I'm paraphrasing here, if any model in a unit has shrouding it give shrouding to the rest of the unit Its clearly stated in the first sentence of the Shrouded USR on page 41 of the BRB."A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule counts its cover save as being 2 better than normal." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Its clearly stated in the first sentence of the Shrouded USR on page 41 of the BRB."A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule counts its cover save as being 2 better than normal." wonderful ty, I paraphrased because I don't have access to the BRB at work..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Well, for one you're kinda shoving words in my mouth here- I didn't say I only wanted to apply some of the entries. In fact, I didn't say I wanted to apply any of the entries. In double fact, I said I would prefer it if the rules for the old FAQ didn't apply to Tyranids anymore because virtually everything in it was some sort of penalty. The fact that GW hasn't taken the FAQ down is part of what leads me to believe it may still be applicable (although very possibly in ways they didn't intend, like the psychic powers.) When CSM and Eldar came out, their FAQs were both amended very quickly- even preemptively- and removed all of the old stuff. I don't think it's unreasonable to see the fact that Tyranids are a week in with no adjustments as potentially having some significance. IMHO.. They are waiting on the datasheet releases before updating the FAQ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 so I broke out the 4th ed tyranid codex last night....Tyrants used to be 75 pts, Warriors 14 pts, Carnifexes 85 pts...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgosaurusrex Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 so I broke out the 4th ed tyranid codex last night....Tyrants used to be 75 pts, Warriors 14 pts, Carnifexes 85 pts...... I miss the days of appropriately priced tyranids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 IIRC, you HAD to add points on top of that base cost though, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonVilkee Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 Yeah and to be honest as a regular opponent of the big bugs they were too cheap... Compared to vehicles of the day. In sixth I prolly wouldn't have the same objection to the costs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 IIRC, you HAD to add points on top of that base cost though, right? You didn't have to, that is where build a bug came into play, you got to boost some stats, build the nid to your nefarious purpose of devouring the universe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 You had to at least buy Weapons. The cheapest you could actually field was 22 Points per Warrior, 83 Points for a Tyrant, or 91 Points for a Fex. In practice, you were usually looking at a DakkaFex/Tyrant at 113/121, SniperFex at 148, and Warriors coming in between 25 and 40 per Model, depending on what you wanted to do with them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 You didn't have to, that is where build a bug came into play, you got to boost some stats, build the nid to your nefarious purpose of devouring the universe Killing universes goooood. Eating is gooood. Bacon is goooood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 16, 2014 Report Share Posted January 16, 2014 so I broke out the 4th ed tyranid codex last night....Tyrants used to be 75 pts, Warriors 14 pts, Carnifexes 85 pts...... Keep in mind that all of those units had significantly lower stats at that point- for example, Tyrants were WS5(?) and A3 rather than WS8 A4. Carnifexes were BS2 I1 A2. Warriors were WS4 BS2 W2 A2. I actually feel like the Carnifex and Tyrant prices are about right as they stand, although there's some minor problems with both units. Warriors are horrifically overcosted, but that has been the case for a long time now- the 4th Edition Warriors were actually even worse than they are now, because they were HQ/EL choices rather than troops, which meant that they were taking up slots where you would otherwise be fielding Dakkafexes and Dakka Tyrants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munkie Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I know playing against 4th tyranids scared the bajeezus out of me but it was usually a blast. I miss that. That and nid players enjoying playing with bugs. I really miss that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Keep in mind that all of those units had significantly lower stats at that point- for example, Tyrants were WS5(?) and A3 rather than WS8 A4. Carnifexes were BS2 I1 A2. Warriors were WS4 BS2 W2 A2. I actually feel like the Carnifex and Tyrant prices are about right as they stand, although there's some minor problems with both units. Warriors are horrifically overcosted, but that has been the case for a long time now- the 4th Edition Warriors were actually even worse than they are now, because they were HQ/EL choices rather than troops, which meant that they were taking up slots where you would otherwise be fielding Dakkafexes and Dakka Tyrants. all those stats were adjustable... I didn't mention force org, you'll have to find someone else to argue with for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yeah, those stats were adjustable. The point, tho, is that if you build a Warrior or Tyrant with a statline as close to the current ones as you can get, the cost gap does narrow quite a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Yeah, those stats were adjustable. The point, tho, is that if you build a Warrior or Tyrant with a statline as close to the current ones as you can get, the cost gap does narrow quite a lot. Excellent point and you are correct. I looked a little deeper and to build the current stat lines in most cases it exactly spot on to the current stat lines as far as cost is concerned, except the fex :D. BUT... I don't think either of us, any of us, would build the current stat line. That was the joy of the old system, the unit isn't going to be shooting a lot? Don't pay for the BS bonus. Unit going to primarily be shooting? don't pay for the initiative, str and WS bonus. But throwing all the stats in there together kinda gives the feel of a half assed space marine. Need a cheap deck chair synapse unit? 66 pts for 3 warriors. 2+ saves were more available, you could even get a really really bad invul save for the Tyrant :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Getting the new dex and making lists: 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Excellent point and you are correct. I looked a little deeper and to build the current stat lines in most cases it exactly spot on to the current stat lines as far as cost is concerned, except the fex :D. BUT... I don't think either of us, any of us, would build the current stat line. That was the joy of the old system, the unit isn't going to be shooting a lot? Don't pay for the BS bonus. Unit going to primarily be shooting? don't pay for the initiative, str and WS bonus. But throwing all the stats in there together kinda gives the feel of a half assed space marine. Need a cheap deck chair synapse unit? 66 pts for 3 warriors. 2+ saves were more available, you could even get a really really bad invul save for the Tyrant :D Yep. Unless you were trying to make all-rounders, you could leave off either the Adrenal Glands or the Enhanced Senses, and the savings could add up. It just kind of annoys me when I see people talking about Fexen going from 85 Points to 120, when the current 120 Point Build is a lot more comparable to a 107 Point 4th Ed Fex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 It just kind of annoys me when I see people talking about Fexen going from 85 Points to 120, when the current 120 Point Build is a lot more comparable to a 107 Point 4th Ed Fex. Fair point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainA Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 My biggest question with this dex, is how is or will it be able to handle Tau/Eldar/Taudar? I can see a first turn situation where you will be able to be on them turn two, but if they are going first, I don't necessarily see a good outcome in most games for Tyranids against those forces. Any thoughts and ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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