New 40k edition

[Kremmet]

I'm with you there. That said, with a game that has as many models as 40k has, reducing the amount of special circumstances is pretty important. 

[WestRider]

2 hours ago, fluger said:

It's possible, but it will still come down to points.  That being said, it certainly ups their utility.

I'm interested to hear if we still have move-shoot-assault or if it will go to charging in the movement phase.  Meaning, you move into base contact during the movement phase and then swing in the assault phase.

I really hope this is the new way (how does AoS handle it?), as that again is a buff to pistols (since you don't lose the shot and you can't shoot yourself out of charge range) and also means you have to commit to it earlier and have less time to soften up the enemy.

They mention a Charge Phase at the very end of the article. Looks like we're going to find out more about that tomorrow.

[fluger]

1 minute ago, WestRider said:

They mention a Charge Phase at the very end of the article. Looks like we're going to find out more about that tomorrow.

Yeah.  I see that now, I bet my answer will come soon.  

It seems wise to me as it avoids moving models multiple times per turn, which seems to be a priority.  

[Threejacks]

2 hours ago, fluger said:

It's possible, but it will still come down to points.  That being said, it certainly ups their utility.

I'm interested to hear if we still have move-shoot-assault or if it will go to charging in the movement phase.  Meaning, you move into base contact during the movement phase and then swing in the assault phase.

I really hope this is the new way (how does AoS handle it?), as that again is a buff to pistols (since you don't lose the shot and you can't shoot yourself out of charge range) and also means you have to commit to it earlier and have less time to soften up the enemy.

 Likely that Charging has its own phase and is done after shooting.

  Also Pistols could still be counted as an additional CC weapon,just wont give an extra attack and more likely allowing hit rolls of 1 to be rerolled,,this is a common benifit of dual wileding in AoS.There are rare instances of dual weapons giving rerolls to hit as well.

 

  We also know now that "In combat" is defined as within 1" of each other instead of 3" like AoS,,probably changed due to the more shooty nature of 40k.Im still anticipating the GH2 to have some sort of nerf to shooting into and out of combat as well.

 

[fluger]

1 hour ago, Threejacks said:

 Likely that Charging has its own phase and is done after shooting.

Oh well...

[Skkipper]

For smoothness it should be 

move. Fight CC. Shoot.

 

[Prophecy]

12 hours ago, Skkipper said:

For smoothness it should be 

move. Fight CC. Shoot.

 

Says the khorne lover.

[Brother Glacius]

I love corn too....in mashed potatoes

[pretre]

We’ve heard about movement, psychic powers, and shooting. Today we look at the Charge phase.

Charging in Warhammer 40,000 is how you get your units into close combat to use all those awesome looking exotic combat weapons to hack, slash and otherwise obliterate enemy units.

The basic mechanics of this phase are very similar to how they work now. You can select any unit with 12″ as the target of your charge, and your units will move towards them 2D6″.

Enemy units still have a chance to hit the charging unit with overwatch, provided that they are not already in combat. Just as in the current edition, overwatch is a hit on a flat 6 – all pretty familiar so far.

In the current Warhammer 40,000, you need to reach base contact. In the new edition, though, you only need to come within 1″ of an enemy, which in practice means that compared to the current charge range, you get an extra inch.

You also can’t move within 1″ of an enemy you didn’t declare as the target of your charge, so if you want to engage multiple units, you’ll need to brave the overwatch fire of all of them. Overwatch can also be fired multiple times per phase, but as soon as the unit is engaged, they will no longer be able to fire back.

So, the Charge phase keeps most of its current mechanics, with only minor amends.

 

[pretre]

Multiple overwatches! Muhahahah

[andozane]

This is probably the first new rules preview that I have not liked the direction they went.  Though to be honest, overwatch is a good piece...I guess deep down I wanted to see it gone :)

[Threejacks]

3 minutes ago, pretre said:

Multiple overwatches! Muhahahah

 Yeah,and they seem to be implying that everyone can overwatch now...great way to balance that out:)

  Tau shouldnt worry though,,they could very well get an ability that lets them overwatch on a 5+ or reroll 1s on overwatch.Wouldnt be surprised.

   Now if the 40k set removes casualties like the AoS set,,then this should be just fine because that means the controlling player can take casualties from anywere in the unit,rather than just the closest to the source of damage dealt.

 

[fluger]

9 minutes ago, Threejacks said:

Now if the 40k set removes casualties like the AoS set,,then this should be just fine because that means the controlling player can take casualties from anywere in the unit,rather than just the closest to the source of damage dealt.

Yeah, it was always the double whammy of being shot in your phase and then being out of charge range.

Like Ando, this is the first rules preview that I've been lukewarm on. I've never liked the move shoot assault mechanic ever since it started in third. It always seemed really silly to me that units had the same amount of time to move and shoot and then stand still compared to units that moved and then ran into combat swung their swords and then moved again potentially.  I like the binary love you they're shooting or assaulting not both. I was really hoping that this would be a change back to 2nd edition butt at the end of the day this isn't a deal-breaker for me.

[fluger]

21 minutes ago, pretre said:

Multiple overwatches! Muhahahah

Wait, isn't this exactly how it works now? They're saying that you can't OverWatch once you're engaged, so I think the implication is that if you have someone declared assault against you, you over watch them, they fail the assault, but a different unit declares an assault, then you over watch them again, and so on and so forth exactly like it works now or am I missing something?

[Romans832]

Fluger, you've got it right, every time charge is declared fire overwatch unless already tied up

[pretre]

11 minutes ago, fluger said:

Wait, isn't this exactly how it works now? They're saying that you can't OverWatch once you're engaged, so I think the implication is that if you have someone declared assault against you, you over watch them, they fail the assault, but a different unit declares an assault, then you over watch them again, and so on and so forth exactly like it works now or am I missing something?

Right now, you only get one shot at overwatch, even if the first charge fails.

[pretre]

"

Resolve Multiple Overwatch
If a unit declares a charge against two or more target units, all of the target units can fire
Overwatch! Resolve each unit’s Overwatch shots separately in an order determined by the
firing units’ controlling player. Remember that a unit can only fire Overwatch once per
turn – this doesn’t give them a chance to make an extra Overwatch attack!

"

[fluger]

Ahhh, gotcha.

[Sugarlessllama]

21 hours ago, fluger said:

 

Exactly what I was going to say.  But yes, against shooting with no penalty to the save, terminators in cover are the same as without.  Still weird.  

Where is this information coming from? I haven't seen it on the Warhammer Community website.

[pretre]

Cover was listed as a bonus to save in previous posts.

[fluger]

1 hour ago, Sugarlessllama said:

Where is this information coming from? I haven't seen it on the Warhammer Community website.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/30/new-40k-shooting-phase-apr30gw-homepage-post-4/

[Sugarlessllama]

4 minutes ago, fluger said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/04/30/new-40k-shooting-phase-apr30gw-homepage-post-4/

I read that article as well. Nowhere in the article does it say that Terminators are a survivable whether or not they are in cover. It only says that cover will provide a bonus to armor saves. I would imagine that this mechanic would also apply to Terminators.

[Kremmet]

I'm not sure what you're lost on. Terminators already have a 2+ save meaning whatever bonus to save they get from cover will be irrelevant against most weapons in the same way that cover currently doesn't help a model with a 3+ save, again against most weapons, currently. Terminators could also easily not benefit from the bonus cover armor as nowhere have they stated they're getting rid of the 2+ maximum on saves.

[fluger]

Or are you talking about terminator stat lines?  Those were released a while back.

 

[Sugarlessllama]

12 minutes ago, Kremmet said:

I'm not sure what you're lost on. Terminators already have a 2+ save meaning whatever bonus to save they get from cover will be irrelevant against most weapons in the same way that cover currently doesn't help a model with a 3+ save, again against most weapons, currently. Terminators could also easily not benefit from the bonus cover armor as nowhere have they stated they're getting rid of the 2+ maximum on saves.

If a model with a 3+ Armor Save gets a +1 bonus from Cover, it would then have a 2+ Save.

If a model has a 2+ Save but is in cover, than it would receive an additional bonus. This bonus would then be used to offset the rending value of any weapons that wounded it. So if a weapon has a rending value of -1, the Terminator would still keep their 2+ Armor Save while in Cover. But it would be reduced to 3+ if it were out in the open.

The statement I was referring to was that the Terminator would have a 2+ no matter what. Which I don't think is true.

And while the rules have not been released yet, the information provided has more closely resembled the scenario I just described.