peter.cosgrove

So, to answer your question. The unit applies all of it's bonuses first, Then any bonuses from other units. Since the DA replaces the leadership instead of adding to, then the CSM don't need the icon in order to get 12 leadership

Ok. giving the CSM dudes the icon of vengeance is pointless. You would have to give it to the Dark Apostle for the +1 from the icon, Then the black legion trait, for +1, then the BRB Inspiring leader for the +1, giving the DA 12 leadership, which the CSM would then use. The +1 for the icon for the CSM would be pointless because it applies to the unit first. Then other units apply second. So even if the CSM get 8 plus the icon +1 for 9, plus the BL trait +1 for 10, then the +1 for Inspiring Leader for 11, All that would be replaced by the DA's 12 IF the DA had the icon of vengeance, otherwise it's even either way, because the DA's 11 is the same as the CSM 11. So, give the DA the icon, which you can do, then add all that other stuff, boost him to 12 and run a metric buttload of cultists which will then have 12 leadership. Which is kind of the point of the DA anyway.

Where are you getting Inspiring Presence as a warlord trait?

My wife has informed me she is working on sunday. let me go check. I have been allowed to go to the club if you want sometime after 1300/1PM

8E is very simple, very smooth. ONCE you get the rules down, which are very basic. It is very easy for 2 players who know the rules and their army to finish a 2k point game in about 2.5 hours. However, there is a moderately inclined learning curve. 2 hours for 2 relatively new players is about 750-100 points. so 35 to 50 ish power points.

ok, I got it. I am old, curmudgeonly, behind the time. I have been called a Luddite. I got it. However, for those of you who have NOT seen this, you must go see it. Now. Not later. Now. 2 seasons of 28 total episodes of pure awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_2nM1GEllg&index=2&list=PLyiDf91_bTEgnBN0jAvzNbqzrlMGID5WA

The fallen are cheap chosen. They can take pretty much what the chosen can take and get a special shooting bonus if they don't move. If you KNOW you are going to be walking chosen across the board then don't take chosen, take fallen. With splitfire.. you know what.. here.. I have no clue why I would want to type all this crap out again http://www.ordofanaticus.com/topic/208712-chaos-space-marines-8th-ed-escalation-thread/ Which is which? Chaos Space Marines / Chosen / Havocs / Fallen. For these units you really have to lump them all together and there is a reason why. They all got hit with the vanilla bat. If you want to make a comparison between Chosen and Khorne Zerkers then do that. Other than that specific comparison you are going to be looking at these 4 units together trying to pick and choose the best choice which will be most likely based on massed shooty and relying on the +3 armor save for the additional fight capability in units of 5, but added choices in groups of 7-10. They all can take heavy weapons. They all can take special weapons. Chaos icons don't help any of them for shooty. You have to take a Chaos Lord with them for shooty/assaulty re-rolls (or Cypher for the fallen). Abaddon has lost his special affinity for Chosen, so you can get the same effect from him with all 3 non-Fallen units. Now, here is the reason why. Chosen have to give up their bolter for a chainsword, they didn't have to do that before. Chaos Space Marines have to give up their bolter for a chainsword, they also didn't have to do that before. Havocs.. surprise surprise, have to give up their bolter for a chainsword. Fallen, have to give up their bolter for a chainsword. All 4 units can take heavy/special weapons but they have to give up their bolter for it. So. If you want shooty with 2 attacks base take either Chosen or Fallen. Fallen can't go into transports (But they can go into fortifications :wink:) but that distinction is pointless because you can't shoot out of a rhino. If you want long range shooty you have to take havocs and either put them into a bunker or pay a LOT for the ablatives they will need on the 8th edition battlefield. Something to note, havocs don't get any shooting bonuses like Devastators/Long Fangs/Fallen. BUT with all these units you can bring a mix/match of heavy/special shooty weapons and plus up with added chainsword/pistol whippers to take the wounds and add to the assault if you bring 7-10 of them.

Ok, I re-read the original post. No, warlord traits and psychic skills are chosen/decided before each game and therefore aren't included in the roster. Any relics that you gain upon using command points would also not be included in the roster.

I would say, anything you use a stratagem and command points for would not be included in a pre-prepared roster.

ya, ok. there is a blank roster sheet. Let me check that. Because, since it is posted in the codex that means it has to be prepared in entirety before any game, which includes any pre-game stuff. It would be bad form to prepare the roster after seeing what army your opponent brings and it could be argued that a roster has to be completed before a game.

Oh.. I see. No, The warlord trait can be picked anytime before the match begins IAW the game rules. If you look at the ITC stuff it says exactly when you choose your warlord trait/psychic skills. The only way you can obscure your opponent's ability to do this is to hide your army from view off the table and follow the steps for the game waiting until the step where you deploy to bring your army out unit by unit. The deployment check doesn't happen until the matched play begins at the start of the first turn. It helps if you think of warlord traits/relics/psychic skills as a form of limited sideboard that can be modified based on what army you are facing, knowing that if your opponent is an ass they can keep you from knowing what they have before the game begins. Check the relic, The Murder Sword, for example. You have to nominate an enemy character, but it's at the beginning of the first turn. Because according to the game you are only going to know your opponent's entire army at that time, not before. The only time you have stuff fixed is if the LO/TO says your list is fixed throughout the league. The "checking of your opponent's list" table courtesy is just that, a bit of sportsmanship that, while built into the game/table courtesy, isn't really required by the rules unless it's written into the rules for the tournament. It is interesting to note that if you take out this step, games have a shorter duration because generally briefing your opponent on your army requires it to be laid out and organized.

I don't think you can force your opponent to randomly choose them, you can of course randomly choose them. At least, I don't see why you couldn't, although I can see why you wouldn't.

Everyone has been choosing them at the GG thing.

I have a list I have been dinking around with. wouldn't mind giving it a shot.

no. a model must complete a charge move. Check the charge. It says "If this is impossible, the charge fails and no models in the charging unit move this phase" HI says "completed all of their charge moves" If the charge fails it's not complete. Because it says "charge move" instead of "charge phase" if no charge move was completed then you can't HI. That's RAW though, so maybe when they typed "charge move" they really meant "charge phase". In which case RAW is different that RAI. It's not a far leap of logic to assume that they may have meant the "charge move" to be the last subphase of the charge phase.

Ya, ok. I see what you are saying. But it's only avoidable by your opponent if your opponent always charges. In that one situation where you have a character within 3 inches of an enemy unit and your opponent only wants to charge with one unit and doesn't want the unit that is closest to your character to get into within 1", then your opponent has the choice of either charging and hoping you forgot the rule, charging and hoping you don't notice, charging and hoping you don't want to get your character within 1", or not charging. I think it's broken RAW which may very well be RAIPAI, which, given 8th edition may actually be the case. for that one single time, where your character just happens to be out on his/her tod and your opponent says it's clobberin time and you are sweating, hoping your character doesn't get all shot up, doesn't get all shot up and you at least have some choice of which unit you get to fight.

You missed it. After the enemy completes a charge, if you have a character within 3" of an enemy unit, the character can move up to 3 inches closer to an enemy unit. Before the fight phase. The unit that the character is 3" away from doesn't have to be the unit that charged. You can have a single unit that charges on one side of the table and a character 4 feet away can do a heroic intervention.

Also, it's to the closest enemy model. That doesn't necessarily mean the charging unit. As long as your opponent does any charge moves, i/e declares, rolls dice, succeeds in the charge distance, and moves at least one model (because you only have to move one model to complete a charge), and you have a model with heroic intervention within 3 inches of an enemy unit, you can move the model 3 inches closer to the nearest enemy model. Since the model is within 1" at the beginning of the fight phase it gets to fight. Seems kinda broken, but there's nothing in the FAQ that I have that changes it. I might have an older one.

well. when I read your original post I got the impression that you were worried about the entry fee for the league. I was bringing up, from my point of view, that the entry fee was very low to alleviate in the discussion from a positive/constructive perspective that worry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl3IW-pPMyU

Except for the fact that I never said anything about any store charging a table fee. This was misconstrued, and when I made an attempt to re-explain it it was again misconstrued or misunderstood. The only person who brought up stores charging a table fee was the OP. I apologize if that was the perception. It was a poor attempt at sarcasm utilizing pollysyllabic pedantism for comedic effect meant to be read with humor in mind.

Nobody else said this. YOU said this. You took a constructive comment and turned it into something else. I never said anything about charging people by the hour or by the day for table space.

ITC. The objectives are placed in exact spots for each mission. You only get a +1 to the first turn roll. And the bottom floor walls block line of sight. Any gaps, windows, doors in walls/ruins first/bottom floor you can't shoot through. Thats it really. So far.

I would rethink the multi-melta on the helbrute that has it. The 12' double tap for the cost compared to either lascannon or missile launcher is kinda..meh. the other thing I would rethink is, with that kind of list, look at nurgle helbrutes in a nurgle detachment. They don't have the -1 to BS for moving.