WestRider Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Hey Torg (or others!), what "obsession" do you fancy for your Prince? I've been using Survivor of the Endless Darkness, but the FnP really only helps against low strength attacks; T3 makes Instant Death really easy to come by and low strength attacks usually aren't much of a threat to him in a T6 unit with a 2++. The second chance at keeping the shadowfield active is pretty nice, though. If it works the same as the Dark Eldar ShadowField, you still lose it even if the Wound was negated by FNP. One of the very few things they've put in a FAQ in the last couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 AP & Fluger: I've liked the look of Swooping Hawks for a while. With that said, what do they do that jetpack corsairs with lasblasters and haywire grenades don't? Is the attack when they drop in and the ability to leave the board that big of a deal? And are lasblasters actually worthwhile? Three shots is nice, but the S3 and high AP turn me off. One thing to remember about Lasblasters is that while S3 does kinda suck, three shots per guy (potentially at BS5) completely makes up for it- statistically, a Lasblaster is about as effective as a Storm Bolter against T4 targets and is significantly better against T3 and T6 targets. AP5 means they can cut through Guard armor in the open, and given their maneuverability it's not hard for them to deny cover to folks. Corsairs with Jet Packs can't really compare. Let's just look at the Hawks' basic loadout- to get roughly the same equipment (Haywire, Ld9, jet movement) the Corsairs are coming in at something like 20+ pts per model, and they still lack the Hawks' superior movement (18" per turn is no joke), targeted Deep Strike (not scattering is HUGE), grenade attacks (AP4 Ignores Cover pie plates will mess up a lot of armies), ability to fly away (really useful when stuck in a bad position or just to repeat the grenade attack), etc. For the points, the Hawks just do so many things more than the Corsairs that there really is no comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torg Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I don't have my IA book in front of me currently - so I will look again when I get home this weekend. But on those Swooping hawks - I liked that they also had Intercept. Which should help some with enemy flyers. I can't remember if the Corsairs with jet packs had that as well. I agree with AP… the Hawks are a better tactical choice. And as long as your going with a Eldar CAD along with your Corsairs… they are hard to pass up. But I think I was thinking more corsairs will help in the troop side of things (securing and all that). On the Prince - I have been looking at the Traveller of the Ancient Pathways…. gets deep strike … web way portals… it seemed very trixy lol. -d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted January 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I just took a look at Swooping Hawks, and damn ... they're dirt cheap and more powerful compared to an equivalently-kitted Corsair unit (jetpack, haywire, lasblasters). The models are pretty sweet too. I think I'll give them a try. I'm also going to see what my list might look like if I ran it as a Corsair CAD with Eldar allies. Jetbikes and the like are more expensive in the Corsair list, but that might be the way to tone the power down for the OFCC. That would rule out the swooping hawks, though, so I'll see how they work first. Re: the holofields on the Hornets, so far they haven't made that big of a difference. With being able to snapfire after I move flat out, I usually take heavy incoming fire as an opportunity to jink, reposition, and shoot at fliers. With that said, given the number of high-priority targets I have on the board, the Hornets are just as often left alone to do their thing. I might consider dropping them if I can find a good use of the points elsewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I feel like holofields should only be on transports with high value things inside. Like d-scythe wraithguard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted January 8, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 Hmmm... a unit of 6 Swooping Hawks including an Exarch slides me right in to exactly 2000 points. That's too perfect to be coincidence. If I dropped the holo-fields on the Hornets, I could give the corsairs in the Venom haywire grenades. Maybe not the best choice, but the extra tactical ability might be nice. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 8, 2016 Report Share Posted January 8, 2016 I would drop the Holofields and give the Corsairs some special weapons, preferably Fusion Guns (but Flamers or Blasters wouldn't be awful, either.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted January 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 Got a game in tonight against a Guard army that could put out what I felt like was a tremendous amount of firepower. The Lynx got blown up first turn before I could move. It was a fun game, very close, with the Guard ahead in maelstrom points until we were close to finishing up. The Swooping Hawks were amazing. The blast when they drop in was neat, but being able to pop a flyer and a tank in the same turn with movement and assault was great. One question: do the hits against flyers in the movement phase by the grenade packs allow the enemy flyer to jink? We played that they didn't, but I'm not certain that was the right call. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted January 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 One other observation - Wasp Assault walkers are potentially the coolest thing on the face of the planet. When I initially added them, I only really paid attention to the Kinetic Shroud rules. I just thought I got a 4++ rerollable against shooting with deepstriking. I hadn't realized that the Shroud became a rerollable 4++ anytime you used the jump jets (in movement or in assault). I like the Wasp more than War Walkers because they offer a lot more in the way of difficult decisions. You can drop in with a rerollable 4++ , but you have to decide how close to the enemy you want to get. Being able to do d6+1 S5 hammer of wrath hits on the charge is great, but once you're in combat, you are AV 10 with no save whatsoever. As such, you better not get charged, and you better disable whatever you charge pretty quickly. You also have a get-out-of-jail card in the form of jumping away, but then you're only snap firing. It's a neat set of rule! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 The Swooping Hawks were amazing. The blast when they drop in was neat, but being able to pop a flyer and a tank in the same turn with movement and assault was great. One question: do the hits against flyers in the movement phase by the grenade packs allow the enemy flyer to jink? We played that they didn't, but I'm not certain that was the right call. I'm of the understanding that it doesn't allow Jinking, since you can only Jink when chosen as the target of a shooting attack. However, there's some room for argument on the subject, since Intercept is resolved using the rules for a shooting attack. Wasps are fairly neat, though I am less impressed by the Jump Jets than you are- being forced to fire Snap Shots for the turn when using makes the survivability boost a lot less attractive, though obviously it's not horrible or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted January 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 That's the way we had read the Swooping Hawk rules - it wasn't specified that it was a shooting attack. I could go either way, though. Wasps are fairly neat, though I am less impressed by the Jump Jets than you are- being forced to fire Snap Shots for the turn when using makes the survivability boost a lot less attractive, though obviously it's not horrible or anything. That seems to be a theme with the Corsairs. The Hornets, Wasps, and Lynx all have a way to re-position in a big way, at the sacrifice of some (but not all) fire effectiveness. The Wasp can jet and snap-fire with a 4++ rerollable. The Hornets can do a tremendous move+flat out, and still snap fire. The Lynx can fly and still snap fire. It all seems to together neatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 Go figure, rules that make them thematically appropriate but are balanced. Is this GW or am I in the Twilight Zone? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 "Balanced" is probably not a word I would use to describe the Corsair book, though it's not as bad as some things. It still has the Hornet, Lynx, Skathach Wraithknight, Warp Hunter, Scat Bikes, free victory points, automatic 12" charge, no-scatter Deep Strike with assaults allowed, and more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted January 13, 2016 Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 Not as a whole, for sure. But I like seeing things like that that offer REAL options. Do I want to be really fast and lose shooting or shoot a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted January 13, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2016 "Balanced" is probably not a word I would use to describe the Corsair book, though it's not as bad as some things. It still has the Hornet, Lynx, Skathach Wraithknight, Warp Hunter, Scat Bikes, free victory points, automatic 12" charge, no-scatter Deep Strike with assaults allowed, and more. Ooh! Where are the free VPs, auto 12" charges and no scatter deep strikes with assault allowed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted January 14, 2016 Report Share Posted January 14, 2016 The Coterie Specialization "Hate Bringers" gives the whole Coterie Hatred against a single unit, chosen at the beginning of the game, and if that unit is destroyed (by whatever means) at the game's end you gain a Victory Point. It's pretty trivial to pick something like a Rhino or other easy kill in order to guarantee the bonus point- some of the other specializations are good enough to potentially warrant taking something else (Sky Burners and Titan Breakers both have some potential), but it's hard to argue with a free point every single game. Path-Ward, the Primaris power of the Aethermancy discipline, guarantees you roll a 6 on every die that the unit rolls for movement-related purposes, including Dangerous/Difficult Terrain and charge distances. This means that the unit will always charge maximum distance and will never fail Dangerous Terrain tests. Similarly, Warp Tunnel targets a single Corsair unit and allows you to Deep Strike it anywhere on the table, without scattering, and still act normally that turn. It does have a chance of damaging the unit (every 6" moved rolls a d6, and a 6 results in a wound with saves allowed), but that is a pretty trivial cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted February 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 The new (glorious, wonderful) OFCC guidelines have me desperately trying to drop down from an unacceptable 4 or 5 to a 3. I think a 2 may be forever beyond my grasp given what I have painted already, but a boy can dream. Here's how I've modified things. I tried to make fewer scatbikes and warpspiders, with some more non-mechanised infantry. I've also moved to Corsair CAD with Eldar allies because, seriously, that's what it should have been in the first place. I love this list tons, but would appreciate any comments. Also, I'm pretty sure it's a "3", but is there any easy changes I could do to get it to a 2? CORSAIR CAD Corsair Prince, Shadow Field, Combat Drugs, Void Sabre, Jet Pack He rides with the Wraithguard and provides close combat backup. Plus, he’s a Space Elf Pirate Ninja Prince, which is pretty much as cool as it gets. I switched from the FnP upgrade to the Combat Drug upgrade, because pretty much everything can Instant Death a T3 elf. 2 Wasp Assault Walkers, with Void burners and starcannons Drop in with a 4++ rerollable, blast away with 8 plasma shots, and then charge in with 2d6+2 hammer of wrath hits. 3 Corsair Jetbikes 3 Corsair Jetbikes They’re a lot more wimpy (and expensive) than the Eldar ones, in that once they run, they’re gone. Still, objective grabbers extrordinaire, and better at getting in close, shooting, and getting away than their Eldar counterparts. 12” move, shoot, then 3d6+6 to get away, between the Corsair rule and the jetbike rule. 5 Ghostwalkers (w/ Haywire grenades, jetpacks, and a fusion gun) 5 Ghostwalkers (w/ Haywire grenades, jetpacks, and a fusion gun) Infiltrating, scout, stealth corsairs. Only a 4+ armour with T3, but lots of utility. The base corsair has a lasblaster, so it seems like a decent utility unit that gives my opponent something to kill and gives me a lot of options if my opponent ignores them. 5 Corsairs with splinter rifles in a Venom with 2 splinter cannons. Lots of poison that really just serves to punish Tyranids for being Tyranids. They deserve it. 2 Corsair Hornets with Pulse Lasers I dropped the invulnerable saves because they’re more likely to jink and turbo-boost, given that they can still snap fire when they turbo boost. Corsair Lynx, scatter laser, kinetic shroud Not as resilient as the buffed Eldar version, but the perfect answer to Imperial Knights and the like. Plus, the model is gorgeous. ELDAR ALLIES Autarch, Warp Jump Generator, Power Axe Rides shotgun with the Warp Spiders for some CC backup. Plus, reserve manipulation. 5 D-Scythe Wraithguard in a Wave Serpent with brightlances, ghostwalk, spirit stones, and holofield A super powerful unit, though without the deep-strike without error, it makes more of a challenge of it. Note to opponents: ignore everything else and destroy this Wave Serpent! Mobile Wraithguard are deadly. Footslogging Wraithguard are just area denial. 3 Scatter Laser Jetbikes 3 Scatter Laser Jetbikes Dropped from 10 scatbikes to 6. Because, seriously, scatbikes. 8 Warpspiders + Exarch w/ twin-linked death spinner. Warpspiders are great, and I’ve already painted them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 So why not switch bikes for guardians and dire avengers are those opions just not a thing anymore they do just as much damage just not at as great a range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainA Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 Sorry bro, that's a 4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted February 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Sorry bro, that's a 4.Noooooo!!!!! The lynx, hornets, wasps, warp spiders, corsairs in venom, wraithguard, wave servant, and 6 (non scat) jet bikes are painted. All the other stuff is bought and built. Help a brother out. What needs to be done? Edit: Would 3 less scat bikes and the points put into a Vyper do it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torg Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 what if you eliminated the allies?.. and bulked up on baseline corsair troops - to vanilla it out some? -d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainA Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I guess my "issue" with calling it a 4 is that when you go down the list of some of the best items in the eldar/corsairs book, you have them here - Warp Spiders, Hornets, Lynx, D-sychte wraithguard, etc. Hard to say what would make it less tournamenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted February 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I admit, I'm trying to use the models I have painted already. I started this army. Before the new IA11 book, so I started trying to make the army as a combination of Eldar and Dark Eldar. As such, I'd love for the the warp spiders, wraithguard, and wave serpent to stay in if at all possible. I've been working on painting this stuff for ages, and was hoping to be able to show it off at the OFCC. What about: 1) drop the 6 scatbikes, move the 6 jet bikes to Eldar, add a Corsair Fire Prism and a Corsair Vyper with a shruiken cannon and scatter laser. 2) or do the bike switch around, add a Corsair Firestorm, with 25 or so spare points to tuck into upgrades. Any closer? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted February 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Save the Corsairs. :( 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 I've been working on painting this stuff for ages, and was hoping to be able to show it off at the OFCC. Play in the Friday event? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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