Kremmet Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Nobody was saying that they would. I suggested it could be a possibility, but the comment was in reply to Fluger's who said he didn't like that marines with a 3+ save gain little benefit from cover currently which would hold true in the new edition given what we know about small arms for models with a 2+ save. Nobody was saying anything about models with a 3+ save VS models with a 2+ save and nobody was saying that a Terminator would have a 2+ save no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Let me clarify my personal opinion. Since 3rd Edition came out a Space Marine in cover would get the same save and be equally survivable being shot at by any weapon that wasn't ap3 as a Space Marine in the open. So my point was I thought it was silly that a Space Marine in cover usually is just a survivable as a Space Marine in the open. What Kremmet is saying is that now Terminator with its 2 plus save is in the same boat against most weapons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 Dredged this up that was concocted in April 2016. Interestingly GW really listened to this IMO and moved on what people were saying. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 so...many...charts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 1, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 That was a third party survey though, wasn't it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 21 minutes ago, pretre said: That was a third party survey though, wasn't it? Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestRider Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 The more I think about it, this might actually be necessary to balance out some of the other buffs Assault Units seem to be getting. If they're generally getting improved basic Movement values, and casualty removal can come from the back, and shooting in general is getting weakened, that adds up to making it into Combat at least a Turn sooner, and with more dudes left. At that point, the extra Overwatch (and even the ability for everyone to voluntarily leave Combat) might not be so brutal to CC Armies after all. Still gonna have to wait until we see the whole thing, tho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted May 1, 2017 Report Share Posted May 1, 2017 People be talkin' 'bout multiple overwatches like it's going to happen all the time. Odds are it happens occasionally. Agree in general though, West. Gotta see the full rules. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 One thing I just thought of, being a ble to be in melee while within 1" allows fiddly models like hormagaunts to be in melee without trying to position them perfectly. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Let’s get down to the best phase – combat (unless you’re a Fire Warrior…sorry).| This is part of the new Warhammer 40,000 with some of the biggest changes. We’ve already seen in our article on unit profiles that Initiative has gone. Instead, the priority for striking is based on the previous phase, with those units that completed a charge swinging first. There’s a definite emphasis on making charging into combat effective – these units have gotten all the way across the battlefield, they’ve braved enemy fire and overwatch, and now they’ve finally made it into combat – they will at the very least get to swing. Units that activate gain a free 3″ move towards the closest enemy. This can be used to get within 1″ of other enemy units, if you’re cunning, dragging more foes into the melee and preventing them from shooting next turn, even if you didn’t charge them directly (giving them no chance to overwatch). Enemy gun lines will need to be careful about how they position their supporting units, so as to avoid getting dragged into the fight too. Following chargers, players take it in turns to activate units across the board to fight – this can get quite tactical, as both players need to choose the combats where dealing maximum damage will be important to them, while trying to limit enemy retaliation on their valuable or fragile models. There are a few units that can interrupt this sequence to attack out of turn too – Tyranids with lash whips and Slaaneshi Daemons, for example – and it can also be influenced by Stratagems (more on these soon) if your army is Battle-forged, all of which add a nuanced level of tactical depth to the phase. Players will have much more influence over the outcome of combat now, rather than purely the stats of the models involved, both in their own and in the opponent’s turns (though we still wouldn’t expect Guardsmen to triumph over a unit of Khorne Berzerkers any time soon – fix bayonets!). Another thing we have seen is that hit rolls are now fixed. This has the effect of making dedicated combat units generally hit on a 3+, while models representing the most competent warriors of the 41st Millennium (Guilliman, the Swarmlord, Ghazghkull Thraka, to name but a few) will now hit on 2+! Close combat weapons (which we’ll look at in more detail in future) also gain new rules – some will slice through armour easily, while others will hit with enough force to cause deal multiple wounds that can cripple or kill even powerful enemy models. Across the board, these changes lead to combats that are more deadly than ever. Generals who successfully coordinate a battlefield-wide charge will be rewarded with a phase of utter carnage, while their opponent will have to work hard to minimise taking damage, and carefully consider their retaliatory options. Expect combats to be hard-fought, bloody, and tactical – just as they should be. We’ll be back tomorrow with some new details on morale – and after we’ve seen the damage that shooting, psychic powers and combat can do – can you blame anyone for running away? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Hoo boy. Consolidate into combat is back. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PumpkinHead Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 It's not consolidate into combat, it is just dragging people into combat that are within 3". So that unit of 30 Hgaunts that has 15 guys not touching, they will get 3" to try and drag another unit into combat. And since you are now considered in combat if within 1" of someone, you have 4" to work with. That extra 1" is a big deal, trust me, my wife said so... 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 I expect that only models within 1" of the enemy will be allowed to fight, as a general rule. I'm sure certain units and weapons will get an extended range, just like in AoS. I'm a little confused as the activation goes across all combats. However, if you have multiple charging units in a phase, creating multiple combats, then I'll assume that all charging units get to go first, then the defending player will get to activate a unit? Means that it is almost always going to be worth it to charge in extra units to stack up on attacks before your opponent gets to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan-of-War Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 So you can prevent another unit from charging you next turn if they're close enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 11 minutes ago, PumpkinHead said: It's not consolidate into combat, it is just dragging people into combat that are within 3". So that unit of 30 Hgaunts that has 15 guys not touching, they will get 3" to try and drag another unit into combat. And since you are now considered in combat if within 1" of someone, you have 4" to work with. That extra 1" is a big deal, trust me, my wife said so... It's not TECHNICALLY consolidate into combat, but the last time we saw this was when it was. That's just what I was comparing it to. Being able to drag new units into combat off of consolidate is a big deal. A unit like TWC or Bloodcrushers with big bases that are choppy will be able to pull a lot of folks in if your opponent isn't careful. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 So units get to move, shoot, charge, and then attack in the combat phase. Chargers won't get the 3" move in the same turn they charged will they? So now I'm really confused about the whole "pistol" thing. At what point are you going to find yourself within 1" of an enemy prior to the combat phase that you are not in combat with? If you can move to 2" away in the movement phase, you can fire with all weapons, and have a guaranteed charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 My guard cried a little bit at that. This is gonna be an assault heavy edition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 20 minutes ago, Brother Glacius said: So units get to move, shoot, charge, and then attack in the combat phase. Chargers won't get the 3" move in the same turn they charged will they? So now I'm really confused about the whole "pistol" thing. At what point are you going to find yourself within 1" of an enemy prior to the combat phase that you are not in combat with? If you can move to 2" away in the movement phase, you can fire with all weapons, and have a guaranteed charge. I don't know that we know everything yet. I imagine you'd shoot if you were still locked in during your following turn. We'll find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 2, 2017 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, generalripphook said: My guard cried a little bit at that. This is gonna be an assault heavy edition. Bit early for tears, we don't know everything yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, generalripphook said: This is gonna be an assault heavy edition. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 This is my favorite part of the AoS ruleset and I'm stoked to see it ported to 40k.You all are gonna love this part! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happycamper Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 My Death Company are busy sharpening their chainswords 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frowbakk Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 Much less likely to call a mulit-charge (and get overwatched by more than one unit) if you can just consolidate into neighboring units and involve them without fear of their (hitting on a 6) firepower. Gunlines now have to set up 4.1" apart or more. H'ray.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 They kind of sort of did the Flames of War thing where anyone within X inches becomes a defending model. Not exactly the same but kind of the same. I like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted May 2, 2017 Report Share Posted May 2, 2017 I wonder if KDK will be affected the same way as Summoning psykers are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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