Opinions on this years OFCC comp pack?

[KJTW]

I have noticed that within my weekly gamer group, and OFCC team that this years comp pack has generated very strong feelings among some of us, and I am wondering what the community as a whole feels about it?

I am not interested in starting any shouting matches, or anything, I just want to know what people honestly think.

 

 

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I honestly don't have an opinion myself as this is my first ye. From what I heard prior years had a comp that was relaxed last year to the point where some players took advantage of the laxed comp.

 

End story anyway the Senate sets up the comp someone will not be happy. Some want a relaxed fun time with fun lists, some want a competitive tournament.

 

But again I am new to the OFCC and have just been listening to more seasoned players.

[Munkie]

I've got no problem with it. It's one weekend out of the year. Even if it's not someone's preference, I can pretty much guarantee they won't regret it.

[ClassicFlava]

I have no problems with it either.  I dont think its very limitting at all.

[McNathanson]

Sorry to be dense but what's the "comp pack"?  Are you talking about the comp limits in the rules post (e.g. Dark Elves 2 Masters Max) or something else I am missing?

 

Thanks!
Nathan

[MexicanNinja]

I'm with NtK on this one.  What exactly are you talking about here?

[dkieft]

I am pretty sure he is referring to the "no more than X of Y" and other restrictions listed near the same area.

 

We have this discussion every year, that fact of the matter is that OFCC is designed to be a event that focus' on fun of the game (for everyone) over other aspects (such as the "Hulk Smash" type army build). History has shown that if left with wide open army books many players cannot be trusted to keep the power level down to where other players can "Bring what they want" (as in being able to bring lesser powered selections and still have a fighting chance).

 

Now before anyone pipes in with a "But I want to smash my opponents army so hard that he doesn't have a chance to win... that is what is fun to me" let me just say that if that is what you "like" about warhammer then this is not your event (well, not the main OFCC event, there should be other options this year I hear).

 

Anyway, over the years this has been the course that OFCC has chosen. Long time attendee's either like it or accept it. If you want a hand in shaping the OFCC rules and restrictions, then get involved! Join the planning team, be a list rater. While OFCC may only last a few days I can guarantee you that the planning for next year starts the the Monday after. Participation is the key to helping shape it.

[MexicanNinja]

@dkieft- You do realize that you can still construct smash mouth lists without the restricted things, correct?  Also, I thought it was a combined-shared responsibliity of the team captains and army judges to ensure those lists didn't make it to the event?  A player can always find any loop hole given to him.  Again, I am a very firm believer that if the captain isn't afraid of his captain responsibilities and the army judges really look into every list (i know this is a tough job) then the lists shouldn't be over the top.

[Iraf]

I think the event is over comp. Over comp is not a fun event in my opinion. It just alienates players that are trying to bring their version of a fun list, and making them conform to your version of a fun list.

It's not the lists that make a fun tournament. Its the importance of a proper sportsmanship system. Which OFCC already had.

I think this years comp system was a huge mistake.

[MexicanNinja]

Honestly, I don't really mind the comp system.  The only part I don't truly understand is the "3" thing.  Every person will think a list should be rated differently.  My 3 may be someone elses 4.

 

If people want to play some harder games then they could always attend the OFCC Open.  I am attending the main event to see some great looking armies and meet some new gamers.  As far as the restrictions on the main OFCC event, the only thing I would love to not see in the future, if this keeps going, is the denial of special characters.  Those characters allow for some extremely unique, creative, and beautiful looking armies.

[Munkie]

As far as the restrictions on the main OFCC event, the only thing I would love to not see in the future, if this keeps going, is the denial of special characters.  Those characters allow for some extremely unique, creative, and beautiful looking armies.

I agree with this point. I think GW has done a pretty good job of balancing their SCs in later books, restricting them seems unnecessary. If there are a few ridiculous ones (and there may well be, I'm not too familiar with some books) they could be restricted on a case-by-case basis.

 

 

I think this years comp system was a huge mistake.

 

I haven't been to the square base side in a few years, but the last one I attended (uhh....2010, that was) the comp system was pretty similar. Did it go away for a while? Either way, nobody is "making" anyone conform to anything. This year is positively saturated with other events. If it ain't your style, it ain't your style.

[Sylvos]

I am pretty sure he is referring to the "no more than X of Y" and other restrictions listed near the same area.

 

We have this discussion every year, that fact of the matter is that OFCC is designed to be a event that focus' on fun of the game (for everyone) over other aspects (such as the "Hulk Smash" type army build). History has shown that if left with wide open army books many players cannot be trusted to keep the power level down to where other players can "Bring what they want" (as in being able to bring lesser powered selections and still have a fighting chance).

 

Now before anyone pipes in with a "But I want to smash my opponents army so hard that he doesn't have a chance to win... that is what is fun to me" let me just say that if that is what you "like" about warhammer then this is not your event (well, not the main OFCC event, there should be other options this year I hear).

 

Anyway, over the years this has been the course that OFCC has chosen. Long time attendee's either like it or accept it. If you want a hand in shaping the OFCC rules and restrictions, then get involved! Join the planning team, be a list rater. While OFCC may only last a few days I can guarantee you that the planning for next year starts the the Monday after. Participation is the key to helping shape it.

 

 

No.1  - There is only one other Warhammer Fantasy event and it is not a "Smash my opponents army so hard that he doesn't have a chance to win." event as it it is also an Ordo Fanaticus event and sportsmanship is not an option in our events.  So please do not refer or infer to the OFCC Fantasy Open as that type of event as even unintentional meanings can give someone the wrong impression of the event and possibly cause them not to participate.

 

No.2 - I wish everyone would separate the ideology that List = Sportsmanship.  If you are an [Clown] and play like an [Clown] it doesn't matter what you bring - you're still an [Clown].  It should be a Captain's responsibility to educate his team on what it means to participate in this event regardless of what is being put on the table and then enforce that mentality through out the entire event.   

 

Composition and restriction does not mean that what you are going to bring isn't going to crush your opponents, how you play the game does. 

 

Last year communication about the spirit of the event (See Raindog's sticky about the Spirit of OFCC) was not handled properly and as a result several teams appeared with the impression that this 2 day event was a competitive tournament rather than a team event that celebrates the hobby.  Had there been better communication and more emphasis on ensuring captains kept their teams in line and playing like Ordo members then I think that some of the negative comments about last year's OFCC Fantasy event would have been minimized or at beast negated entirely.

 

All of that said - the comp system has been posted by Raindog.  He is the Head of Gaming for the event.  He has taken on the responsibility and burden to run the event so while you may not agree with it, it does not mean that it won't work.  It just means that you and others may have a different opinion and expectation of what the event should provide. Neither of which are wrong on any account.

[Iraf]

I haven't been to the square base side in a few years, but the last one I attended (uhh....2010, that was) the comp system was pretty similar. Did it go away for a while? Either way, nobody is "making" anyone conform to anything. This year is positively saturated with other events. If it ain't your style, it ain't your style.

 

That's not exactly true.  With the heavy comp system Ordo is making people conform to something.  You are correct, if it isn't my style there are plenty of other events to go to.  On the other hand, this thread isn't about what other events there are out there. It's a thread about the members opinions on the comp pack. Which I disagree with.

[Sinewgrab]

I am underwhelmed.  I see comp for one side based on what other armies may bring, and then those 'other' armies get comped, because the original army can't have what is the obvious foil due to comp, such as monsters versus cannon.  I'd rather see less comp, and more trust in players and their captains.

[mojoslayer]

I'm not a fan of the comp pack, but that is because there is no reference for what a 3 is.  I would have preferred a system like the swedish system where I can calculate my comp and know where I stand as I list build.  I also don't like the limit of one army type per team, from what I hear that is making it hard for some teams, it also limits the theme possibilities for teams.

 

That said, I'm sure it will still be a well run and fun event. 

[Murphy'sLawyer]

That's not exactly true.  With the heavy comp system Ordo is making people conform to something.  You are correct, if it isn't my style there are plenty of other events to go to.  On the other hand, this thread isn't about what other events there are out there. It's a thread about the members opinions on the comp pack. Which I disagree with.

Compared to other comps I have read about, like the Swedish and German comp, OFCC's is very open. It mostly is trying to stop spam armies that are not fun for either player. In fact when I read the comp for the Dark Elves and Empire I was surprised that there we're not more because, as I said, it really only focuses on spam units and not wicked combos.

 

There is still Huge amounts of lists open with only a couple being limited. If you like spam armies I can see why you may not like it but there are some truly stupid comp events I have read about, so this looks very tame.

 

And if there weren't bad players out there trying to work the system to gain an unfair advantage than there wouldn't need to be a comp. So you should be mad at them, not Raindog.

[mojoslayer]

Maybe for a future event the following would be a good way to set up teams, every member of the team must score between a 7 and 14 using the swedish comp system, and no team can score less than a 40 in total (for four player teams). 

[Iraf]

Compared to other comps I have read about, like the Swedish and German comp, OFCC's is very open. It mostly is trying to stop spam armies that are not fun for either player. In fact when I read the comp for the Dark Elves and Empire I was surprised that there we're not more because, as I said, it really only focuses on spam units and not wicked combos.

 

There is still Huge amounts of lists open with only a couple being limited. If you like spam armies I can see why you may not like it but there are some truly stupid comp events I have read about, so this looks very tame.

 

And if there weren't bad players out there trying to work the system to gain an unfair advantage than there wouldn't need to be a comp. So you should be mad at them, not Raindog.

 

I'm not mad at anyone.  Please don't put words in my mouth.

[mojoslayer]

Murphy's Lawyer, people are always going to try and break the system, and to be honest the more you try to limit people the more people try to beat the system :)  I think it is just a flaw of human nature.

 

I understand what ordo is trying to do, and I applaud them for giving it a go, you don't know what will work and not work without trying, and maybe they hit it on the nose this year, it will be interesting to see. However, I'm hope the pendulum swings back a little for next years event, not for limits, I'm fine with limits, but for the scoring system, it just seems clunky right now.

[MexicanNinja]

Compared to other comps I have read about, like the Swedish and German comp, OFCC's is very open. It mostly is trying to stop spam armies that are not fun for either player. In fact when I read the comp for the Dark Elves and Empire I was surprised that there we're not more because, as I said, it really only focuses on spam units and not wicked combos.

 

There is still Huge amounts of lists open with only a couple being limited. If you like spam armies I can see why you may not like it but there are some truly stupid comp events I have read about, so this looks very tame.

 

And if there weren't bad players out there trying to work the system to gain an unfair advantage than there wouldn't need to be a comp. So you should be mad at them, not Raindog.

What's the point of team captain then?  They are supposed to do what you stated in your first paragraph.  Technically, you could get x amount of people to show up and form y amount of teams by drawing names from a bucket.  Also, I have to strongly agree with mojoslayer.  What the heck is a 3?  Again, like I stated above, I love to play tough lists and my 3 may be someone's 4.

 

Also, not one person on here said they were mad at raindog.  We are just stating our opinions and some of us are just a bit confused on some of the restrictions, if captains are truly supposed to enforce the spirit on OFCC onto their team members.  If the captains fail to do this, then something should be done with the captains not the players.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I'm not mad at anyone. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I guess that was a more figurative mad than me saying you were mad at Raindog. What I mean is if players came to OFCC with lists designed to have a fun event rather than a Beatface Netlist all the time then there will be no need for a comp system. But as Mojoslayer so well pointed out it is human nature for some to look at taking advantage of a system for their own gain. Even though the point of OFCC is not to win and get prizes for winning. You get rewards for the hobby aspect.

 

Sorry my post came off as offensive, I was not trying to start a fight, I was saying if you dislike the comp don't blame the event organizers blame the small percentage of players that ruin it for the rest of us. They really are trying to be level handed.

 

Again for everyone, I never thought he was really Mad, I was using it in a figurative way. (Which I forget doesn't translate well on the internet. My bad.)

[savion47]

I'm not mad at anyone.  Please don't put words in my mouth.

Your avatar makes everything you say seem angry. 

[HeroZero]

Two things that people seem to be skipping here.

 

1.) The list rating is subjective. However, its a committee. Not an individual. Your 4 may be a 2 to me. Have a little faith in peoples ability to rate, and know its not going to be singled out by one person that's butt hurt over a particular thing.

 

2.) If you do not like the rules this year, do not participate. It's not an event for everyone. If you want to change them, get involved for next year, perhaps take on the impossible task of making people happy.

 

Also, I want to say I'm much happier with this rules pack then years past. It was way more collaboration then I've seen prior.

[dkieft]

@dkieft- You do realize that you can still construct smash mouth lists without the restricted things, correct?  Also, I thought it was a combined-shared responsibliity of the team captains and army judges to ensure those lists didn't make it to the event?  A player can always find any loop hole given to him.  Again, I am a very firm believer that if the captain isn't afraid of his captain responsibilities and the army judges really look into every list (i know this is a tough job) then the lists shouldn't be over the top.

No... what? I had no clue!!! I have never even played a game before!!!! Gosh enlighten me more could you?

 

Seriously, of course people can still break stuff. The comp is part of a system aimed at blunting the nastiest stuff (and sometimes the weakest armies too)... it is a single piece of a puzzle... and no the puzzle is not perfect, so don't add those words to my mouth either.

[dkieft]

No.1  - There is only one other Warhammer Fantasy event and it is not a "Smash my opponents army so hard that he doesn't have a chance to win." event as it it is also an Ordo Fanaticus event and sportsmanship is not an option in our events.  So please do not refer or infer to the OFCC Fantasy Open as that type of event as even unintentional meanings can give someone the wrong impression of the event and possibly cause them not to participate.

 

No.2 - I wish everyone would separate the ideology that List = Sportsmanship.  If you are an [big bad swear word] and play like an [big bad swear word] it doesn't matter what you bring - you're still an [big bad swear word].  It should be a Captain's responsibility to educate his team on what it means to participate in this event regardless of what is being put on the table and then enforce that mentality through out the entire event.   

 

Composition and restriction does not mean that what you are going to bring isn't going to crush your opponents, how you play the game does. 

Funny story, I did not refer to the OFCC Open as anything... in fact I could not recall what it was called when I posted. No, I simply said there were other options this year. Wasn't really implying anything about what the options were (heck, 40k is an option this year too).

 

No. 2 You are right that "list != sports"... but you are wrong to thing that unrestricted list = fun game. The fact of the matter is, if you are the sportiest mo-fo in the world with a dead hard list, and you come up against the second most sportiest mo-fo in the world who has a soft list... the game is going to be [big bad swear word]. It may still be fun BSing and such, but playing a 2 hour game when you lost before deployment sucks. and for the guy on the winning side? ... well it still sucks... Warhammer is about bloody fights the swing both ways, back and forth... it is not a fun game for either player when one side gets mauled. While the comp system is not perfect, it's goal is to avoid those "Rock breaks scissor" games that are really no fun for anyone.

 

And if you don't like it go play in that WAAC OFCC Open event. :P