The umpteenth billion gripe.

[JamesBeadle]

I have always been an advocate of GW, defending the price hikes as a nessisary evil, defending the hobby as cheap compared to other forms of entertainment, however I am now begining to doubt. I own three GW 40K armies, and four WHFB armies. I cannot support them, period. The only reason I own so many is that I amassed a lot early on when I had a really good paycheck, but that is unlikely to happen  again in my lifetime and I have to be realisitic. I do not want to leave the hobby, this is not some dramatic farewell letter, and Eben can defend me in that I have always been a fan. The current prices of modes and particuarly books however is becoming overwhelming. Even without buying new models,the books are a burden.

 

I think I may be getting squeezed out.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

It's the trend of the Economy. Everything is going up faster than wages. And the upper 10% is making historically record breaking profits when compared to the average wages.

 

So yeah, that trickle down theory is turning out to be as true as the Flat Earth theory.

 

(You are not alone.)

[fluger]

Same exact story for me.  I used to have lots of disposable cash and was able to both buy whatever models I wanted and go to however many events I wanted.  Then my economic situation changed drastically; I'm making less than half of what I did back in 2008 and I just keep getting squeezed more and more.  

[splinx]

I amassed quite a nice large BA army about a year ago and compared to other games its ridiculously expensive. I got into Bolt Action ww2 stuff and with $200 i managed to get an army, army book, dice and scenery, and extras to bump up the army. Pretty much everything i needed to play the game and more. 

 

I think GW are in for a shock one of these days as people are now leaving the hobby quite quickly and picking up other non games workshop games like war machine/hordes, malifaux, flames of war etc and realigns how expensive GW are!

 

It is a sad state of affairs but i have always found its the people you play the game with that make it as enjoyable and thankfully i have some great guys who are in the same boat. Its kinda sad leaving 40k but then again its refreshing to play something that doesn't cost the world to keep up with and doesn't change every year.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I myself am at a crossroads of sorts. My main game is Fantasy and my Dark Angels have been sitting in storage for sometime due to DA's inability to keep up with the meta. So I have a large third tier army that needs a couple hundred more in allies and books, including 7th, to have a fair game now days. This and keeping three Fantasy armies going won't happen.

 

Time and again I keep thinking I should sell off most of mg 40K and keep just enough to play Kill Team. (which is way more balanced than the normal game.)

[Casiarius]

I have been complaining about the price of GW books and miniatures since 3rd Edition... and by the time I quit the hobby at the end of 4th Edition I had still managed to collect three armies, as well as the codicies for a few other armies I didn't even play. But nobody at GW twisted my arm and forced me to have three armies, most of what made the hobby so expensive was me.

[TW_Haines]

I understand, the squeeze is getting me 2. I also look at the fact a case of beer is $20.00, smokes $5.00, and a big mac meal is $8.00. Knowing that the cost of a box of ork boyz  or rule book, is a cheep habit (I quit smoking drinking and driven fast). I understand there tanks cost about $10 more a kit than other models. I just look at all the things I spend on and what it what. I am on a fixed 60% income with 2 kids and a wife, Took me around a year and 1/2 to make a army. All in all worth every penny to me.

 

TW Haines

[Threejacks]

Money has kept me away from this hobby for 30 years as now that im in my 50`s I can afford to get into it but I certainly cant go out and splurge on FW or buy up GW`s Formation bundles and stuff like that.

I would guess that just in the 2 years ive been actively playing ive spent around 3k on the game.For comparison purposes I used to be into R/C cars,monster trucks and scale crawler stuff...that can easily get into the several thousands rather quickly.Also MTG being just a card game can get rather spendy if you want to try and keep up with the current meta and travel the region for competitions/Qualifiers.

 

Now I should mention that ive managed to fund a fair chunk of what I have now by selling off stuff ive collected in past hobbies such as R/C vehicles,MTG cards,Battletech minis and such and even some other warhammer/40k models I didn't have plans for.Also the GW hobbies seem to have an active healthy resale market..were is R/C stuff looses values like a cheapo new car.

 

Yeah I agree GW is certainly in it for the money and im sure in its earlier years was much more reasonable.But they do provide a pretty good product and if one looks at the time and effort in to assembling and painting the models you can actually see that the money spent is not as much of a waste as it seems..once again compared to other leisure time activities and hobbies.

 

The thing that bugs me most about GW is not so much their prices but more so the speed at which 40k rules and codexes are coming out and causing rather large deviations in the power level of all the armies often rendering players collections all but ineffective before they ever make it off the assembly/paint table...but I guess that's why GW says that 40k is pretty much JUST a beer and pretzels game.Im starting to see this about it and am really looking at other games for a more balanced competitive experience when im not in the "Beer and Pretzels" mood.Fantasy doesn't seem to have this problem and I think is a much better version of Warhammer for tournaments and friendly competition.

 

I second Splinx on Bolt action:) a game that's a fraction of the cost of 40k(if ya want to try to keep up with the meta that is) and has great modeling options too! but being a historical game I know that's a bit too confined for many.Other games like Warmahordes and Xwing seem very reasonable and fun...ive got starter sets of both and have dabbled with them and will likely get more into them in the future but they don't offer the modeling options that 40k has so I don't see them fulfilling that part of the hobby for me.

 

I think as the hobby gets less affordable we just need to be more into swapping/selling and buying models from each other making use of the forum sites and ebay as needed

[tombking]

Yeah, squeezed out is about right.

Every time I check an inflation calculator the base plastic models track pretty well but with the new book pricing and new let use $100 uber models in regular armies I am beginning to feel meh about a game I have loved for 20+ years now though I do like the new base rules so far from what I have read.

 

Then couple that with being on my income only for more than a few years, mortgage, child, various property owning related expenses, etc. Then the only way it seems to get a pay raise anymore is change employers rather than even get anything to match cost of living inflation heck the raise pools are usually less than half cost of living most years and real wages haven't kept up with inflation for a long time now and I find I have less and less budget and time for toys.

 

Honesty when I price most other games at least the per figure cost isn't any cheaper just less models required for a usable army on the table (and really you can play 40K at less than 2000pts easily), for the most part though stuff like Bolt Action will be cheaper as there is no one supplier only as you cant copyright/trademark a u.s. infantryman or german afrika korps image so you are not stuck to one vendor for models and of late I just have not been able to schedule regular gaming for 40k so why should I bother to buy into say Warmahordes if I am not going to get any more playtime out of it than GW games.

[Lord Hanaur]

I am glad i dont work for anyone else.  I would hate for some of these economic horror stories to come to pass for me.

 

2008 rocked everyone.  But the dividends i see GW paying out tell me what I need to know:  They have room NOT to be doing this to us.  I put up a post but didn't hear a lot on it.  Their dividends have been unearthly.  Stock price is definitely NOT how you need to look at this company.  Yeesh.

 

Oh Blessed EBAY, protect us.  I mean you can totally keep up with this hobby through used models and honestly who cares if they're used?  Most dont. 

 

7th Edition is uber fun though.

[ChaosGerbil]

My eyepatch is in place, which makes it easier to wink. I have about 8 armies so buying all the rules all the time is out of the question.

 

It helps to limit myself to only having so many unassembled / unpainted models at any given time. I've also saved a ton of money by getting third party models, making cool stuff out of discount bits, scratch building, buying on ebay, and adapting old models to new standards. I never sell models or throw out bits. I still try to avoid netlists and FOTM combos.

 

Check out alternate model sources rather than buying GW retail at full price. For example, I've gotten dragon leg pairs for about $1.50 when the kit sells for $60+. Amass enough bits that others don't want and you can cobble something together. I buy ribbons of green stuff three feet at a time. Want a Knight? Check out used toys on the net or at conventions and think about what you could change. There are a ton of robots for under $20 that would make a good start. MacFarlane Spawn toys are often Knight sized and with a little imagination and work you can make something cool.

 

From what I hear GW is dividend obsessed at the upper levels, and that's their selling point to investors as opposed to promises of major growth like most companies. Maybe it's a British thing.

 

Please don't leave the hobby. Just forget about keeping up with all the latest and greatest trends. Being competitive is fine but there is also something to be said for restraint and honoring the themes of armies. Hop off the treadmill and just paint what you enjoy, and play games with people that aren't munchkins. You could even go back to your existing models and give them more equipment and touch up their paint jobs. Add names to their shoulderpads or dress up their bases. It's all up to you how to proceed.

[dalmer]

Hello there,

 

ChaosGerbil makes good points.

 

I've gotten back into the hobby after a decade away and the prices are what they are, since apparently GW and FW and others don't bother to consult with me prior to making their price points.  The nerve!

 

As silly as it might sound, I really took to heart some articles' content written by Vetock and Johnson:  I concentrate on the hobby aspect and found that it helps immensely.  I work on the modeling.  I work on the painting.  I design a narrative to play and do my best to have fun if and when I can play.  If you can find a couple of "battle buddies" that can regularly game with you, no matter the points level, then you're set.

 

Now, if you wanna play competitively and tournament wins make you happy and all that stuff... well, there's an entry fee for playing that way, just like other hobbies / sports / etc.   And sadly, to play you usually have to pay.

 

Stay safe,

 

don

[scottshoemaker]

I find that the meta is a terrible stick to measure your enjoyment by. Books are easily shared. Models are easily traded. More than ever we can take advantage of being a community that can help each other enjoy our time together. Need a rules set? Codex ? Try asking.

[JamesBeadle]

You all make very good points, and most of them I have considered (except for the LH dividends observation, I'm as ignorant as can be about that stuff, I read your post but had nothing intelligent to add to it). I am not leaving the hobby, but for the first time ever I'm actually worried about it. I have a lot of models, I can play fine without adding more, but I did just buy the 7th edition book and the price hurt me. I sacrificed to get it, and that is what started me thinking. I have always defended GW in its price hikes, but now I'm just to the point where I have to really consider if it is defendable any longer. I am very unsure. 

 

Miniature gaming is my primary hobby, and Warmachine is my primary game, but with that said I own more GW games than I do PP games. All second hand, literally all of it. I do not work as I am taking an accelerated load in school (18cr/hr) and as I transition at the start of next year to graduate school,  this is not going to change. I have a lot to paint,  and that is what I like to do (playing is fun when I can spare the time). So in my original post I didn't give enough information. 

 

It is not cheap, even in comparing it to other hobbies you  are comparing apples to oranges. If this game is unaffordable to me, a more expensive hobby is even more unaffordable. The observation, accurate as it may be, doesn't suddenly make GW games easier to access by being aware of it.

[KAPcom]

I've only been playing this game for a few years (started late 5th edition), and even being a college student was able to put aside $30 a month to buy models / paint / etc. It used to be that that was enough, either to replenish paint supplies, get a box of models, or save for a month to get a tank or something fancy. Now, that same $30 won't get me anything but a character blister. It's pretty sad how much the price has increased within such a short amount of time. It's gonna take me 3 months just to save up for the rulebook, let alone new models. It's incredibly disappointing.

[dashneeb]

I think that it's really an interesting situation but I would also agree with Dalmer.  I don't feel a need to go out and buy things, I do when I feel I want it bad enough, but I don't actually purchase things all that much for my armies.  However, if you find you need stuff, buy second hand, sell off another army, etc, and as Dalmer said - do the hobbying!  There's so much more enjoyment of having an awesome looking army.  Find a core of things that make your army awesome and focus on that.  I have many different armies, and I'm looking at offloading them because I don't want to haul them around anymore and I haven't played in years.  I have armies who are in purgatory because they don't have a great book or whatever, but they're still fun.

 

However, I don't play competitive, and I don't play at stores really.  I have a small group of people I play with at their homes generally.  And let me tell you, makes the games more fun, and I have a lot better time with people.  Now I just need to find the time one day to make my stuff look awesome and painted as well.

 

There was a guy I knew back in TN.  He was a teacher, didn't make a ton of money and it took him over a year to be able to field a new force, however, he had some of the most awesome troopers because he had a lot of time to make them all amazing.

[Brother Glacius]

What hurts the most about the squeeze is my inability to buy from LGS's. I simply cannot justify GW retail prices. So if I want GW, I have to go internet. That sucks the most. Hell, even a freaking hero model now is min $20. At least now we have other games to play, but finding something as popular is really tough.

[Blasto]

I remember having to go to a gaming convention when I was 10, my older brother wanted to go and the deal was he had to take me. While he went off and played D&D, I got to watch two people play Rogue Trader, Orks vs Space Marines. I had zero idea what was going on, but it looked awesome! I didn't get the chance to see any 40k until I was out of the military 13 years later. I started playing 40k when 3rd edition was brand new. Up until these last two years I played once a week.

 

I love the WHFB and 40k IP, story, and setting.

 

But…

 

GW as a company, is something I can no longer support. Their view point on how they treat their clients is insulting. They drastically over charge on everything, from models that are 15 years old (ork buggies), to over priced books. They sue fan websites, and use legal bully tactics. Currently they use the line of “We only hear how much people love our products”, the reason for this is they’ve sued and or closed down any other avenue of feedback. They also targeted “Mom&Pop” stores with the intent of putting them out of business. They’ve done this by opening mini-GW stores within walking distance, limited who gets what products on time, reducing the reseller discounts ,  blocking web sales (illegal in UK) and removing most of their product line from physical locations. They have then closed down many of these mini-GW stores and battle bunkers as they do not have the “other” gamer products to keep them afloat.

 

I loved playing Orks and Orcs for quite some time. But I’m just fed up with how GW treats its Fanbase and Retailers. I sadly cannot support them any longer. So for me, it is not just the high cost that has caused me to walk away.

[pretre]

Aaaand this thread again. Time to change my smoke detector battery. :)

[Guest Mr. Bigglesworth]

Brother G brings up one of my most concerning points of pricing is impact on lgs. Gw internet selling policy I think helps this. eBay and other online retails dont give me enough incentive.

 

I prefer nos so I can build and pose I want. I'm tired of the great deal that I have to soak and clean. My hobby time is limited so I don't feel like spending it in hazmat suit and playing with chemicals.

 

How many of us have tons of in completed projects? Most if not all, so with that said slow down your purchasing and buy from lgs, until you can keep up with your purchasing, the better deal is supporting your local hobby.

 

Value to quality ratio I still think gw is fair priced and competitive. Many other companies charge 15 for a static posed model. Only their recent character models pricing at 30 seems outrageous. I just kit bash my own. This is the reason quality is so high, name how many other games you can kit bash so fluidly. Most other companies release static models that take extensive modifications to personalize.

[JamesBeadle]

Yes Eben its this thread again, the only difference is that its I who started it. I think its great that folks still like and support GW, but we each have our tipping point. I love the game, and even bought the new rulebook as I menitoned earlier, but the doing so really had me thinking about the game. The hobby in general, like all other consumables, is getting more expensive, but GW is a leader in the pack. Either way the thread was just about my specific situation, and where I am at with it. I am getting priced out of updating my GW collections, and I am signifigantly invested, and it makes me sad.

[pretre]

I am sad that you feel priced out. I think the suggestions of not buying all the books and sharing with friends are good ones.

[Lord Hanaur]

Unless one gets bored easily (me) you only need the main rule book and the Codex for the army you specialize in.  And after so many years, there isn't much to buy for most armies thats strictly speaking necessary.

 

So in some ways i kinda wonder if peoples eyes dont already start bigger than their wallet because they are trying to chase the power curve like a bad investor chases gains.  Some of this comes down to expectations.  Upgrading my IG only required, strictly speaking, about $120.  I bought more but have yet to even use the other stuff...  So...  

 

I like the suggestion earlier to start painting and modeling a lot more and really getting the gains you have in shape.  Maybe make the money you already have spent worth more.  I like the idea.  maybe I should take that advice myself.  =)

[generalripphook]

Personally this edition has kinda drifted me away from 40k too. Its actually moved me to flames of war and lord of the rings strategy game. One of which is a historical game so cant become super wanky and allows me to build to historical unit compisitions. The other which has been practically abandoned by GW which means they pay it almost no mind and most stores gove you discounts because the models almost never sell.

[Koyote]

I think I may be getting squeezed out.

**cough-cough** yoymart.com. **cough-cough**