pretre Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I don't think removing trophies or prizes will eliminate the problem, however. When you get that many geeks together for a bunch of games, there will be bad games even if everyone takes the same list. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I haven't been in numerous years, there was an aspect of raffling involved, by and far. I don't recall all of prize support being withheld for the Raffle, just a portion of it. But there you go, if prize support is already purely raffle, then there is that much more reason to do away with Comp/List Rating. If "winning" big in the games doesn't have a boon, I don't see why there is bitching about half the stuff that is being complained about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Winning has had no correlation with prizes since I started attending in 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 People like to bitched. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I do not agree with it bringing balance to the forces. I think it would do more harm. Especially on Harder lists.. Could you explain this one further? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blustorm Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 It wasn't this past year, this was a few years back. The guy who runs (ran?) the game store out in Coeur d'Alene was HoG that year, iirc. Necrontyr brought Armoured Company. Garret brought his Raptors. I believe the event was in Vanc, at a hotel across the street from burger king and an Asian restaurant. I think EvilBryan had a team of Templar with Ando and a couple others. If you're talking about Bob Kelley being HoG, I believe that was the 2007 40k OFCC. The venue was a Motel 6 out by Mill Plain and I-205 in east Vancouver. BTW, that was you on Derek Atkinson's team? Well, good to know. Now I wish I would have introduced myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 How do you prevent the same person from voting multiple times, ...? Thats really easy to do even on forums. This very forum has locked threads and a poll that can be voted on only one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torg Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Wait... what did I do? … YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DID! :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Wait... what did I do? Played armored company at OFCC like 7 years ago, apparently. :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 page 18,18,18,18,18 go go go GO !!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 page 18,18,18,18,18 go go go GO !!!!!Remember I was the one who called it first. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Could you explain this one further? I can't speak for Kerrigan, but the rationale I've seen before (and that I tend to agree with) is something like this: Not all armies in the game are equally powerful, nor are they given equally-effective tools to deal with other armies. (Duh.) Sideboards will typically help more powerful (and more flexible) armies to a greater degree than they will weaker and more niche armies because the more powerful/flexible armies will have more and better tools to deal with different sorts of threats. If you imagine something like comparing Space Marines and Sisters of Battle in a tournament with sideboards, SM benefit much more extensively- they have a variety of effective units they can bring in to do different jobs as needed. Sisters, on the other hand, will probably be bringing pretty much all of the "good" units available in their codex for a list already- the presence of a sideboard does very little for them because they just don't have any useful tools in a lot of cases. A SM army can bring in anti-flyer or anti-cover or anti-MC tools in a variety of ways, but a SoB player really can't do anything but bring more Meltaguns and Flamers (which they were presumably doing already.) A sideboard just doesn't help them at all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Not only could I bring more meltaguns and flamers, I could bring more meltaguns and flamers! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I can't speak for Kerrigan, but the rationale I've seen before (and that I tend to agree with) is something like this: Not all armies in the game are equally powerful, nor are they given equally-effective tools to deal with other armies. (Duh.) Sideboards will typically help more powerful (and more flexible) armies to a greater degree than they will weaker and more niche armies because the more powerful/flexible armies will have more and better tools to deal with different sorts of threats. If you imagine something like comparing Space Marines and Sisters of Battle in a tournament with sideboards, SM benefit much more extensively- they have a variety of effective units they can bring in to do different jobs as needed. Sisters, on the other hand, will probably be bringing pretty much all of the "good" units available in their codex for a list already- the presence of a sideboard does very little for them because they just don't have any useful tools in a lot of cases. A SM army can bring in anti-flyer or anti-cover or anti-MC tools in a variety of ways, but a SoB player really can't do anything but bring more Meltaguns and Flamers (which they were presumably doing already.) A sideboard just doesn't help them at all. Interesting argument. Not really true if they bring allies, LoWs, fortifications, or other detachments, right? Seems like armies, including sisters, could feature a side board to swap out quad icarus vengeance batteries for battle cannon vengeance batteries when the situation was warranted. Swapping one super heavy for another would also be feasible. Could even be an entire allied detachment which swapped for different allies. I suppose it hurts the armies that are purely a single codex and feature players that don't want to change their list. But at that point, could include a side board that served no purpose other than to worry the opponent about what you could bring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikhailLenin Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I want the OFCC to introduce a new Trophy award called: "Biggest Bi*$% of OFCC" and I demand that I receive that Trophy every year.What are we talking about again? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Seems like armies, including sisters, could feature a side board to swap out quad icarus vengeance batteries for battle cannon vengeance batteries when the situation was warranted. Swapping one super heavy for another would also be feasible. Could even be an entire allied detachment which swapped for different allies. Yuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Yuck. I think you brought SW to the GG cup. If you had the option to swap some of the SW, for something the list was lacking against a particular opponent, it would give you options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I think you brought SW to the GG cup. If you had the option to swap some of the SW, for something the list was lacking against a particular opponent, it would give you options. I brought sisters and SW. The point of a TAC list is that you are set for anything. Mostly I was saying yuck because you listed two lackluster fortifications as the sideboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 I brought sisters and SW. The point of a TAC list is that you are set for anything. Mostly I was saying yuck because you listed two lackluster fortifications as the sideboard. Yeah, meant sisters and SW. Are those fortifications really lackluster? I get great results with mine. I've been tempted to get a second set to bring with a second detachment. The simple reality is that I field AV 14 and these really help mitigate target priority to my expensive AV14 targets. 75-85pts is nothing for a unit that receives nearly the attention of a 250-300pt tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 With my list, they would be lackluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torg Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 the sideboard idea sounds ridiculously cumbersome for an EVENT that is about having 5 great games. … more stuff to paint, more stuff to carry - and so far there is not nearly enough room as it is on the "side table" for another 500pts of options. I think this is way over thinking the "problems" at OFCC. I really feel like this misses the whole point … of what the OFCC is supposed to be IMO. If your thinking you need a side table so you can tool-up your list for your opponent… I am not sure your in the right event in the first place. Sorry to be pointed - but for real? the OFCC is broken?? are you kidding me? I lose and sometimes win (yeah I know… seriously) and I go to have fun. What I don't need is an additional 10-15 min while myself… or my opponent figures out if they want to change up their list. One list (the one you plan on playing) should be enough for you and your team captain (with filtering from the review group) to play 5 fun games. If it is not enough - your looking for something else. -sorry… all these opinions belong to me. not trying to offend - just finding it silly that this has gone on for 12 pages lol. -d 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 the sideboard idea sounds ridiculously cumbersome for an EVENT that is about having 5 great games. … more stuff to paint, more stuff to carry - and so far there is not nearly enough room as it is on the "side table" for another 500pts of options. I think this is way over thinking the "problems" at OFCC. I really feel like this misses the whole point … of what the OFCC is supposed to be IMO. If your thinking you need a side table so you can tool-up your list for your opponent… I am not sure your in the right event in the first place. Sorry to be pointed - but for real? the OFCC is broken?? are you kidding me? I lose and sometimes win (yeah I know… seriously) and I go to have fun. What I don't need is an additional 10-15 min while myself… or my opponent figures out if they want to change up their list. One list (the one you plan on playing) should be enough for you and your team captain (with filtering from the review group) to play 5 fun games. If it is not enough - your looking for something else. -sorry… all these opinions belong to me. not trying to offend - just finding it silly that this has gone on for 12 pages lol. -d Was suggesting sideboard as an idea to add balance, as another user posted that we needed stronger list balance. Seems like a sideboard would solve most list construction issues, as you could fill weak points with more practical solutions. I did mention the points were just examples. As for time involved, idea was just to have the add-on army be self contained units. So you wouldn't be swapping within squads, you'd be swapping a few units for a few units (one add-on for another, not swapping the base lists). Just two add-on lists, one swap availible. Should be easy enough to swap, not dramatically different than picking warlord traits. Anyway, regarding balance, my only solid balance issue is in regards to the Revenant Titan or T-Ctan, which we agree on. Someone else brought the topic up, and I was suggesting a solution. That's it. Not unlike my comment regarding team-constructed awards. It was in response to what appeared as a desire to create awards more than a desire to win awards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Interesting argument. Not really true if they bring allies, LoWs, fortifications, or other detachments, right? The problem there is that you're still helping stronger armies at the expense of weaker armies, it's just happening to do so by forcing weaker armies to alloy in the stronger army. If you take Sisters and then bring along a four Wave Serpent allied contingent to solve all of the weaknesses Sisters have, what you're actually doing is using the strengths of Eldar, not of Sisters. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted December 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 And consorting with foul Xenos to boot! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted December 17, 2014 Report Share Posted December 17, 2014 Wait... what did I do? Is this the army we were talking about? My 4th Edition Grenadier doctrine list? Please note the Baneblade was just for display. Yup, you nailed it. Like I said earlier, I enjoyed playing you, and it was a great looking army. It was just frustrating for me when I knew I was going to lose hard. Could you explain this one further? I can't speak for Kerrigan, but the rationale I've seen before (and that I tend to agree with) is something like this: Not all armies in the game are equally powerful, nor are they given equally-effective tools to deal with other armies. (Duh.) Sideboards will typically help more powerful (and more flexible) armies to a greater degree than they will weaker and more niche armies because the more powerful/flexible armies will have more and better tools to deal with different sorts of threats. If you imagine something like comparing Space Marines and Sisters of Battle in a tournament with sideboards, SM benefit much more extensively- they have a variety of effective units they can bring in to do different jobs as needed. Sisters, on the other hand, will probably be bringing pretty much all of the "good" units available in their codex for a list already- the presence of a sideboard does very little for them because they just don't have any useful tools in a lot of cases. A SM army can bring in anti-flyer or anti-cover or anti-MC tools in a variety of ways, but a SoB player really can't do anything but bring more Meltaguns and Flamers (which they were presumably doing already.) A sideboard just doesn't help them at all. The problem there is that you're still helping stronger armies at the expense of weaker armies, it's just happening to do so by forcing weaker armies to alloy in the stronger army. If you take Sisters and then bring along a four Wave Serpent allied contingent to solve all of the weaknesses Sisters have, what you're actually doing is using the strengths of Eldar, not of Sisters. the sideboard idea sounds ridiculously cumbersome for an EVENT that is about having 5 great games. … more stuff to paint, more stuff to carry - and so far there is not nearly enough room as it is on the "side table" for another 500pts of options. These guys pretty much hit it, Pax. Anything further I'd say is just rewording their stuff. lol Thanks guys. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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