AgentP Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'm so excited by this. Beasts + WoC + DoC, and my beloved beastmen return to having marks, and can roll on eye of the gods. I'm simply drunk on the filth that can be brought. Horrors hanging out by the herdstone. Doombull in a unit of trolls. Bloodletters with a wargor BSB carrying the totem of rust. Marauder core fast cav next to ungor raider redirectors. Warrior DP and skull crushers with skull cannon support. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudra34 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 How about bringing lore of tzeentch and a level 1 beast mage with the hagtree fetish? :) That is some evil right there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 MN I hear you but also from experience with Warmachine and 40K groups I saw them turn into highly competitive scenes where if you didn't bring the Net List of the month you got either Assassinated turn 2 in Warmachine or table turn 3 or 4 in 40k. I know you hate comparing other games to Fantasy but 9th is coming and with that a new way to look at list building. We can see now that lords on mounts are going to have combined profiles and GW is going to push a more Herohammer style of play than 8th was. So I am just wondering if the community is going to maintain our play for the game attitude? Or will it turn into a scene more like the other games where the Named Characters are Gods and the game highly focused on them? I know I am still new to Fantasy compared to many here but I played other game systems for awhile and watched them go through changes as the community adapted to new models or rules. This is also more of me making conversation and not me freaking out and swearing I am going to rage quit. I am just saying changes are coming and asking what people think is going to happen. Because if you think nothing is going to change than you are going to be in for a surprise. The main problem is that we have NO idea what changes will be made for 9th and how these characters will work in 9th. None of us know what the base magic items are going to be, how magic will change (look at the changes for 8th with the addition of all the horde killing spells), or all kinds of other things. Does any current character in an army book have a combined profile? Maybe the End Times characters are an exception, due to them being the beefed up version of certain characters present in army books. How can you say with any certainty that characters will all have combined profiles? You can't because we haven't seen a 9th ed army book. Let's say that ALL characters on a monster will have a combined profile. You have to kill both the rider and mount now to get vp for the model. Sure, there are certain things which will be annoying....for a certain amount of time. Let's take the ward save which could be applied to both rider and mount. How many times have you seen a cannon shot roll a 1 to wound the monster and the hit negated by a 4++ on the rider? Yes, it would be annoying as all heck to have to do 9 wounds to a lord on a dragon and get through a 1+/4++ but it can still be done. How many times have you gotten off a magic missile onto a lord on a monster to watch the majority of the hits get wasted because they are allocated to the rider and the wounds don't carry over and vice versa? Now, that doombolt is used to full effect. All hits go on the model and are not randomized and possibly wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 THE SKY IS FALLING. No I don't hear anybody panicking, truly. We seem to agree that we have a couple options, just like with prior rules changes: fight fire with fire, or self-moderate and encourage others to do so. I agree with MurphysLawyer that the fight fire with fire approach usually gets ugly and isn't all that fun. And MN, I know you and I could both bring bad-ass armies, and wipe up on uber characters. The point is that (just as it's always been) a good player with a super powerful model (if indeed these turn out to be) can use it to win most games without even needing most of the rest of the army, and that's not fun for either player, IMO. Acknowledging that it's a matter of preference, but reminding folks that it's up to us how we adapt and change with new GW rules rolling out! My preference is that we all keep in mind that Everything Is Better When You Think Of Your Opponent Having Fun As Well As Yourself. You know, that old saying ;) I get what you're saying but we can't make any logical argument of how these characters or any lord and/or hero in 9th will impact the game because we don't know the rules or the changes which are going to happen. Heck, does anyone have an official 9th edition release date? Does anyone know when the first 9th edition codex is being released? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Well MN you are right about ET might not be what 9th is like and this is just setting up for 9th. But with GW wanting to sell bigger models and having it be easier to run with fewer models this looks like a good educated guess as to the direction it is going. And remember that this being a speculation it is not to be taken too seriously and remember it is just a conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Well MN you are right about ET might not be what 9th is like and this is just setting up for 9th. But with GW wanting to sell bigger models and having it be easier to run with fewer models this looks like a good educated guess as to the direction it is going. And remember that this being a speculation it is not to be taken too seriously and remember it is just a conversation. Right, I do know it conversation. However, when you continue to use words like "We can see now that lords on mounts are going to have combined profiles and GW is going to push a more Herohammer style..." that's a pretty bold statement. My counter to that is that we don't know that is the direction GW is going to take the game. Let's assume, for conversation, that it is going that direction, how is it any different now? Why do armies typically have multiple characters in them? Well, one has to be the general and they are equipped for dealing with the enemy army. Then there's the typical battle standard bearer. Then, most armies have a "scroll caddy". Others then add in other characters for either combat killing, shooting support, magic support, etc. Characters are used in every game now and some of them are powerful builds. I'll take it a step further now. If this does turn into "herohammer", wouldn't it just be a bigger game of Mordheim (to a certian extent)? I highly doubt we'll see the decline of units. What I do see happening is an increase of MSU. I can see the horde style armies being taken less and less, in order to counter the characters or they could become much better. Until we see how characters, and the rules for that matter, effect the game I don't see any reason to worry about it at this time. The future of Warhammer isn't going to effect how I play the game now and I'm thinking of ways when building my current army lists on ways to fight those characters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Right, I do know it conversation. However, when you continue to use words like "We can see now that lords on mounts are going to have combined profiles and GW is going to push a more Herohammer style..." that's a pretty bold statement. My counter to that is that we don't know that is the direction GW is going to take the game. Let's assume, for conversation, that it is going that direction, how is it any different now? Why do armies typically have multiple characters in them? Well, one has to be the general and they are equipped for dealing with the enemy army. Then there's the typical battle standard bearer. Then, most armies have a "scroll caddy". Others then add in other characters for either combat killing, shooting support, magic support, etc. Characters are used in every game now and some of them are powerful builds. I'll take it a step further now. If this does turn into "herohammer", wouldn't it just be a bigger game of Mordheim (to a certian extent)? I highly doubt we'll see the decline of units. What I do see happening is an increase of MSU. I can see the horde style armies being taken less and less, in order to counter the characters or they could become much better. Until we see how characters, and the rules for that matter, effect the game I don't see any reason to worry about it at this time. The future of Warhammer isn't going to effect how I play the game now and I'm thinking of ways when building my current army lists on ways to fight those characters. Honestly those are all very good points. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krieger Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The new rules for Glotkin look awesome! The Glottkin 810 Pts!!! M:6 WS:6 BS:3 S:6 T:6 W:12 I:1 A:5 Ld:10 Eye of the Gods, Impact Hits (D3), Mark of Nurgle, Poisoned Attacks, Regenerate, Terror 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted October 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 The new rules for Glotkin look awesome! The Glottkin 810 Pts!!! M:6 WS:6 BS:3 S:6 T:6 W:12 I:1 A:5 Ld:10 Eye of the Gods, Impact Hits (D3), Mark of Nurgle, Poisoned Attacks, Regenerate, Terror Huh. For the points, there's got to be more to it than that, right? I can think of a lot cheaper ways to get 5 +d3 S6 attacks. Any clue of the other special rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krieger Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 No I haven't seen anything else other then speculation of a s3 no armor save breath weapon. I am sure there are more special abilities or equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 There's more: *810pts *12 wounds*5 attacks with and additional D6 for his arm, plus thunderstomp etc too.*one attack is S10 and D6 wounds*regenerate*all Nurgle units within 12" can re-roll charges*Level 4 Wizard*Every time he wins a challenge he automatically gets the reward thing which gives him a +1ward save which can then stack. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Hello 810 point model, would you like to meet my pit of shades? See ML, a 65 point empire wizard could kill this thing with a single spell. 6 dice the mo fo and as your wizard gets sucked down bown a dimensional cascade just think how stupid it is that a 65 point model can kill a 810 point model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 There's more: *810pts *12 wounds*5 attacks with and additional D6 for his arm, plus thunderstomp etc too.*one attack is S10 and D6 wounds*regenerate*all Nurgle units within 12" can re-roll charges*Level 4 Wizard*Every time he wins a challenge he automatically gets the reward thing which gives him a +1ward save which can then stack. I maybe wrong but I think 810 points is a not a bad deal, maybe even a bargain. He can kill for sure but he is also a support piece that is hard to bring down. I don't think Chaos players should be complaining anytime soon. Sexy model with sexy rules. (Line up that cannon, hurry it is coming.) I know it can be brought down, but if that thing gets its paws on you, well...... Ick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Looks like fun!! And, Chaos players dont complain. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Looks like fun!! And, Chaos players dont complain. Ever look at the 40K forums? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Glacius Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Going to have to start painting up my dwarven cannons. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Ever look at the 40K forums? Sacrilege!! HAHA, NEVER!! Just sayin', in fantasy, we have nothing to complain about. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarlordGhrom Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 My Skaven would have a hard time with that thing killing it, but then again it isn't killing that many models a turn and one bad turn it could easily get messed up without supporting ranked units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratrek Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 As an aside, the Riders from the Maggot guy are not Ogre sized. They're more like Blight King sized. Bigger then a man, not big enough for an Ogre. Which now leaves me scrambling for character models. Bah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romes Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's weird to me that they gave him I1 but left Nagash with no stateline weaknesses? I think he's fine, he's not fast, his lore isn't amazing, he's an easy purple sun and pit target, and no true ward save. But he still feels useful enough to see play. The only thing that I find problematic about him is when you compare him to Nagash, which doesn't have the same glaring weaknesses. On the other hand, the book is a huge boon (as a warriors player, I think too much) to warriors as a whole as for some reason it seems to give them the reign of chaos table for free with mitigated downsides? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 It's weird to me that they gave him I1 but left Nagash with no stateline weaknesses? I think he's fine, he's not fast, his lore isn't amazing, he's an easy purple sun and pit target, and no true ward save. But he still feels useful enough to see play. The only thing that I find problematic about him is when you compare him to Nagash, which doesn't have the same glaring weaknesses. On the other hand, the book is a huge boon (as a warriors player, I think too much) to warriors as a whole as for some reason it seems to give them the reign of chaos table for free with mitigated downsides? Well as you stated he has some weaknesses but the forces of Chaos as a whole are more powerful now. (We'll have to see how powerful though.) So it is good he is not on the same level as Nagash. Then you wouldn't find anyone but other Chaos players who would play you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Here is a list of what the Chaos Army can take. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-bcoJcMe1AJU/VFJw7HswX6I/AAAAAAAALbY/LSokzAVTxtQ/s1600/20141030_135105.jpg Is there anything not included? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Now I'm going to say it. If anyone thought the VC and TK combo was going to be tough...OMFG with those army choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted October 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Yup, that's about everything, right? I sense an all-my-Chaos stuff vs multiple clubmates in a ridiculously huge End-Times mega-battle in my future. Fetir Bubonicus rides again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 I can agree to that! My knights shall ride against you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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