Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Now I'm going to say it. If anyone thought the VC and TK combo was going to be tough...OMFG with those army choices.I also got to read the Chaos charts and now all their Mages have the chaos magic dice pool roll chart. Chaos players are going to have to censor themselves if they want to continue to have players that will play against them. This IS the top tier now in my opinion. Well that is till the combined Elf book comes out. And I was able to download an image of The New KARL FRANZ. Seriously I think he can give both Nagash and Nurgle's flower boys a run for their points. And he has a 4+ ward with his (2) magic resistance and 9 wounds not going to be spelling or shooting him off the table easily. Same as before but now with the combined profile those 10 attacks he has are all with the Hammer with his +2 AS. It is almost like a big middle finger to Chaos right in the middle of their book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 This is just going back to the old ways. This is how Chaos operated before the current edition, no body even thought it was a thing. I think this will be embraced as much as the undead unification. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkieft Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Beastmen get marks... Yay!!!! I don't know if it will work well for them... but the having another option can't hurt them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 This is just going back to the old ways. This is how Chaos operated before the current edition, no body even thought it was a thing. I think this will be embraced as much as the undead unification. Yes and no. The Chaos armies were in one book before but now the options are like 8x what it was before. And you can not say that WoC and DoC are not two of the top three army books out, period. VC and TK were lower tier armies so having the in one book is way easier to swallow. Chaos players will be able to build brutal lists easy now, Undead armies will still have to work harder for that brutal list. IMO when it comes to stand alone armies the Dark Elves are number one but now combined Chaos just booted them off that top spot with ease. And I am talking about the WE, CoB with large Warlock hero bunker lists too. Chaos will be able to build the dirtiest of the dirtiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 30, 2014 Report Share Posted October 30, 2014 Looks like fun!! And, Chaos players dont complain. Hey Fixxer it is not you at all but over on other forums the Chaos players are seriously bitc(bleep) up a storm about Karl Franz to no end. Chaos just became the best army and they are not happy campers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Chaos players will be able to build brutal lists easy now, or they can build really fun and balanced lists. Also, they have even more options to build uniquely themed armies that folks might enjoy playing against. Or they can feel superior to other players by restricting themselves to a single book. Fixed it for you. It's always depended on the player not to be a jerk, and that still hasn't changed. It's like Unbound in 40k, from which I haven't seen abuse or horror in real life (only on the internet). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swan-of-War Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 The additional flyers are a nice boost for Warriors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Fixed it for you. It's always depended on the player not to be a jerk, and that still hasn't changed. It's like Unbound in 40k, from which I haven't seen abuse or horror in real life (only on the internet). I do agree here, just saying that it wouldn't be hard to break it either. Again this is just a conversation not saying everyone is going to bring it out. But I do wonder if this will get a Swedish Comp before next summer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Wow! The Ascended Karl Franz is some nasty stuff!...tempted to start my Empire army now! But im having too much fun with the Vamps and Bones,lol Actually I just finished the Nagash read last night and I cant help to think that at some point there will be some sort of "Risen" Settra in the future,may be a while though. Looks like Super Heavy`s are officially in fantasy now,and they wont break this game either:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatdave Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I would guess that there will be Swedish updates, but perhaps not until all the End Times books are out. They are diligent with their updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 This is just going back to the old ways. This is how Chaos operated before the current edition, no body even thought it was a thing. I think this will be embraced as much as the undead unification. You are correct but you have to look at the options in each book now. Chaos players with the oop army books didn't have the same units to choose from now. You can have jugs, unkillable doombulls, daemon cannons, WoC daemon princes, nurgle chariots, the disc tzeentch mage, etc in a single army now. Even without taking all the super powerful units from each book this combined army is easily top 3. Not that it's a bad thing, but in certain hands, this army build can get crazy really quick. I think WE are moving out of the top 3 pretty quickly. I put the following armies in my top 3 (these are in no particular order and are purely based on ALL of the options available to them): 1) Dark Elves 2) Combined Chaos Armies 3) Dwarf Armies Why those three? Well, dark elves can spam a ton of option with the 50/50 and can still take hard hitting cheap crap to fill the rest of the points out (2 warlock busses are possible now). The chaos armies because of the obvious choices and combos. Dwarf armies have all the guns to knock those armies to dust really fast and I think there will be an increase in the dwarf gunlines (I know I am about to start adding a ton of war machines to my dwarf army). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Honestly the more of End Times I find out about the more I feel that this IS the Battle Of The Ages that will be remember forever, very much like the Sundering, The Great War against the Daemons lead by the First Phoenix King, The Betrayal War between Elves and Dwarfs and of course the rise of Sigmar and the Empire of Men. We've already seen some Gods die, one Kingdom burned and now an Empire brought to the brink of destruction. From this Gods could rise from the ashes to claim dominion or strike vengeance down upon the corrupt heretics. Of course during all of this the O&G and Ogres seem to be watching quietly. Think they will stay quiet? We already know the Lizard Men won't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think big things are in store for lizards. Book one opens with them, and I don't think that was happenstance. I peg them as having a major role in book four. We'll see a Mazdamundi model, and they will somehow manipulate time in a deus ex machina ending to all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Of all the races, I find it odd that skaven aren't using the opportunity to do mass strikes on the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentP Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 They are. In the first book Skaven destroy all of Tielia and Estelia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClassicFlava Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 I think big things are in store for lizards. Book one opens with them, and I don't think that was happenstance. I peg them as having a major role in book four. We'll see a Mazdamundi model, and they will somehow manipulate time in a deus ex machina ending to all this. i am thinking the same thing. I get the feeling they will play a big role in the end times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted October 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 i am thinking the same thing. I get the feeling they will play a big role in the end times. And the thirteenth seat is filled. That is going to be an EPIC model! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxer Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 You are correct but you have to look at the options in each book now. Chaos players with the oop army books didn't have the same units to choose from now. You can have jugs, unkillable doombulls, daemon cannons, WoC daemon princes, nurgle chariots, the disc tzeentch mage, etc in a single army now. Even without taking all the super powerful units from each book this combined army is easily top 3. Not that it's a bad thing, but in certain hands, this army build can get crazy really quick. I think WE are moving out of the top 3 pretty quickly. I put the following armies in my top 3 (these are in no particular order and are purely based on ALL of the options available to them): 1) Dark Elves 2) Combined Chaos Armies 3) Dwarf Armies Why those three? Well, dark elves can spam a ton of option with the 50/50 and can still take hard hitting cheap crap to fill the rest of the points out (2 warlock busses are possible now). The chaos armies because of the obvious choices and combos. Dwarf armies have all the guns to knock those armies to dust really fast and I think there will be an increase in the dwarf gunlines (I know I am about to start adding a ton of war machines to my dwarf army). Yeah, I hear that there are way more choices, but the effect is essentially the same. I feel like the 50/50 lords/heroes is more the problem. I just think its silly to act like the sky is falling though, its not like chaos players are getting anymore points than anyone else. As for power level of the books/armies, I still believe its the player and their understanding of the game. MN I have no doubt that you could play any army to max effect if you wanted to because of your knowledge of this game. People play what they like, when it comes to the army they choose, not whats "best"... on paper.... Its just too expensive and time consuming, especially if you are actually painting your armies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNathanson Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yeah Fixxer great point: thank goodness for the cost and time associated with making an army, forces people to put real deliberation into what they want to build (not just what they feel like building after losing at a tournament to a douche player with a WAAC list)... I love the social balancing act of Warhammer! How many other games have a "scored sportsmanship" side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yeah, I hear that there are way more choices, but the effect is essentially the same. I feel like the 50/50 lords/heroes is more the problem. I just think its silly to act like the sky is falling though, its not like chaos players are getting anymore points than anyone else. As for power level of the books/armies, I still believe its the player and their understanding of the game. MN I have no doubt that you could play any army to max effect if you wanted to because of your knowledge of this game. People play what they like, when it comes to the army they choose, not whats "best"... on paper.... Its just too expensive and time consuming, especially if you are actually painting your armies. Yes the community has been good about balancing power with good sportsmanship but I agree with MN. Combined Chaos and Dark Elves do have an advantage when it comes to choices and power level. If a Power Gamer were to get into WHFB now they would pickup DE or Chaos now, no question. We are not saying the Chaos players are being Dbags but that chaos has a initial advantage when it comes to choices and it would be easier to abuse the power than most other armies. I also have a thread that expresses my opinion on the Player vs List argument, yes the player matters but the list really really does too. An example would be comparing a pistol to an assault rifle. They both can kill, they both have their uses and do well at them. But if you take two good soldiers and give one a pistol and another an assault rifle and told them to fight the one with the pistol might shoot you first for being a prick. Does this make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexicanNinja Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Yeah, I hear that there are way more choices, but the effect is essentially the same. I feel like the 50/50 lords/heroes is more the problem. I just think its silly to act like the sky is falling though, its not like chaos players are getting anymore points than anyone else. As for power level of the books/armies, I still believe its the player and their understanding of the game. MN I have no doubt that you could play any army to max effect if you wanted to because of your knowledge of this game. People play what they like, when it comes to the army they choose, not whats "best"... on paper.... Its just too expensive and time consuming, especially if you are actually painting your armies. I made my top three list based off army rules and options. Even without using the most powerful choices from each book those three armies have an advantage over most armies because of the special rules associated with their armies and most of the units. I will agree that any player has the opportunity to exploit the army books, as we've all seen it. I think the combined chaos lists will be a common sight at the top tables. There aren't a lot of consistant Dark Elf or Dwarf players that I've seen; however, I think they would/could be at the top tables as well. I also made my analysis around competitive tournament play and not the more casual games being played at WoW on game night or the majority of the event OFCC sponsors. This is just my pre-evaluation of the higher competitive tournaments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy'sLawyer Posted October 31, 2014 Report Share Posted October 31, 2014 Fixxer the word I was looking for before was Synergy. Combined Chaos now has way more Synergenic units and models than before and this can create insane combos that were never available before. And I did check the weather and you are right, the sky is not falling. But your Chaos army did become more powerful through the new Synergenic choices. (Synergy may not be as important in Warhammer as it is for Warmahorde and Malifaux but it can and does make a difference.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMGraham Posted November 5, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Picking up my copy tonight, just as I finish book one. I haven't heard the fluff chat that I heard for part one, but I'm hoping it's just as awesome? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojoslayer Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Missed opportunity to give Daemon Princes out of the Warriors book the unstable special rule and why not the Daemon Prince out of the Daemons book has it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threejacks Posted November 5, 2014 Report Share Posted November 5, 2014 Picking up my copy tonight, just as I finish book one. I haven't heard the fluff chat that I heard for part one, but I'm hoping it's just as awesome? Did you preorder it?..it seems to be sold out for the time being and im in waiting as I just finished a few days back,heh. Im sure its going to be good with the Battle of Altdorf and Nagash and company heading north to meet the Puss Gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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