pretre Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 The jet bikes can engage a knight at long long ranger. If the RW bikes engage a knight, they die to the assault if they don't kill it with shooting. Yep, Eldar Jetbikes can plink at side/rear on a knight at long range. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Pax, never change. You look at a unit that the majority of 40k vets look at and immediately see the power and brokenness of and immediately turn up your nose at it. I'm glad you see angles that other people don't and advocate for things most people discount. I admit you sold me on the bunker from Wall of Martyrs, so I appreciate what you do. That being said, you're absolutely nuts if you don't see the scatter-bike as the best unit, point for point, that is out in the game right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne_Cobbb Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Dreadknight. They also can es ape one that land next to them. 48" move ftw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Dreadknight. They also can es ape one that land next to them. 48" move ftw Oh, that too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 So, how viable are these eldar bike units if they are force to snapfire? Like overwatch, or because of jink (skyfire isn't in question, as it [big bad swear word]ty for everyone). Seems like, if the eldar player goes second, or even just has a bad first turn, the odds that your many bike units will need to jink are pretty good. Once they jink the first time, I'm wondering how many more times they'll get to fire at full BS before they finish the game. So, Jetbikes are fast and have long range, why are they out in the open if they are going second? Hide them out of LoS! Put them on your back line out of range of most things. Also, how much shooting at that range is going be AP3 and in volumes that makes jinking necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Pax, never change. You look at a unit that the majority of 40k vets look at and immediately see the power and brokenness of and immediately turn up your nose at it. I'm glad you see angles that other people don't and advocate for things most people discount. I admit you sold me on the bunker from Wall of Martyrs, so I appreciate what you do. That being said, you're absolutely nuts if you don't see the scatter-bike as the best unit, point for point, that is out in the game right now. Is the codex out now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Is the codex out now? Enough of it is out for us to evaluate that unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Dreadknight. They also can es ape one that land next to them. 48" move ftw You mean, they can give up shooting for a turn? Sounds like a problem solved. Going up in points now, but those dreadknights can actually catch up if given personal teleporters. Add a shooting weapon or two, and that unit is toast. As for RW Knights vs the Dreadknight, yeah, probably not a stand alone solution. A few options. RW knights have those rad grenades which are free for 1 in 3 (trade for the plas talons), which has very solid odds to lower enemy toughness by 1. In 7th, we completely resolve shooting attacks by weapons, so those actually apply to the subsequent plasma talons via the rest of the squad. So, we can wound on 2s with the talons, which may help a bit, though the more impressive application is when combined with a demolisher cannon or similar S10 shooting (those onager dunecrawlers would be fantastic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 That being said, you're absolutely nuts if you don't see the scatter-bike as the best unit, point for point, that is out in the game right now. Is the codex out now? Enough of it is out for us to evaluate that unit. So if the codex isn't out, then fluger's statement isn't accurate, as they aren't the best unit "out in the game" right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 So if the codex isn't out, then fluger's statement isn't accurate, as they aren't the best unit "out in the game" right now. Bam! /rolleyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 You mean, they can give up shooting for a turn? Sounds like a problem solved. Going up in points now, but those dreadknights can actually catch up if given personal teleporters. Add a shooting weapon or two, and that unit is toast. As for RW Knights vs the Dreadknight, yeah, probably not a stand alone solution. A few options. RW knights have those rad grenades which are free for 1 in 3 (trade for the plas talons), which has very solid odds to lower enemy toughness by 1. In 7th, we completely resolve shooting attacks by weapons, so those actually apply to the subsequent plasma talons via the rest of the squad. So, we can wound on 2s with the talons, which may help a bit, though the more impressive application is when combined with a demolisher cannon or similar S10 shooting (those onager dunecrawlers would be fantastic). In order to get to them in the first place, they'd have to use the PT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Sure. Which could happen if your move 12, turboboosting, 36" range, JSJ models run out of board space. boards aren't infinite, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 In order to get to them in the first place, they'd have to use the PT. Deepstrike is a stock ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 boards aren't infinite, sadly. Very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Deepstrike is a stock ability. True, but if they're spending a turn to DS, shoot and then chase me, they aren't attacking any of the other units. Also, how much is a base Dreadknight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Base is 130pts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Base is 130pts Not bad at all. So like 150 or so with PT. Good chance of chasing down and erasing a 5 Jetbike squad over two turns. Of course then he's stuck out in BFE and getting out distanced. Still, as a 2+ save unit with high toughness, he's liking a reliance on Jetbikes with SL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Not bad at all. But base has no weapons (paired power fists, no shooting), and those personal teleporters are extremely expensive. But, yeah, it's dirt cheap for those dreadknights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generalripphook Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Pax my reply must have been lost in all of this, but I was responding to your post which either inferred that Space marines either have a unit for unit or weapon for weapon match for each broken weapon the Eldar have or that Space marines have one broken unit. I was not suggesting which unit or weapon you were referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Pax my reply must have been lost in all of this, but I was responding to your post which either inferred that Space marines either have a unit for unit or weapon for weapon match for each broken weapon the Eldar have or that Space marines have one broken unit. I was not suggesting which unit or weapon you were referring to. Which unit were you suggesting? I really was, just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 Not bad at all. So like 150 or so with PT. Good chance of chasing down and erasing a 5 Jetbike squad over two turns. Of course then he's stuck out in BFE and getting out distanced. Still, as a 2+ save unit with high toughness, he's liking a reliance on Jetbikes with SL. PT is another 30pts, so 160. You'd also, realistically, have one or two ranged weapons, very likely a heavy incinerator (+20) or the heavy psycannon (+35). So, 180-195pts is a common build. Heavy incinerator is torrent S6 ap4, and Heavy psy is either heavy 6 24" S7 ap4 rending, or large blast with same profile. Dreadknight would likely never need to assault the jetbikes. On a side note, GK have a very nice detachment, that nemisis strike force, which allows them to roll reserves turn 1. So I don't have to wait until turn 2+ to impliment any of this (unless I roll badly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DisruptiveConduct Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 The title of this thread is "Codex Eldar Confirmed". This is the second mod note. Please keep on topic or the thread will be locked. Please start a seperate thread if you want to do unit comparisons. Thank you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 The title of this thread is "Codex Eldar Confirmed". This is the second mod note. Please keep on topic or the thread will be locked. Please start a seperate thread if you want to do unit comparisons. Thank you. Like a 'for funzies, SL ratio' thread? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cadaver2k Posted April 20, 2015 Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 So, how reliably can a unit up its armor to a 2+ and how many units can do this each turn? Is the info for this out yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted April 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2015 So, how reliably can a unit up its armor to a 2+ and how many units can do this each turn? Is the info for this out yet?Haven't seen that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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