Old Skool 40K AKA "Get off my lawn you darned kids!"

[Lord Hanaur]

That's a shame.  the community is really growing around here anyways.  Lot of returning people who fell out because of 6E but are back because:  7E.

 

30 people at the last tournament I played in which was this Saturday.

[Dark Trainer]

That's a shame. the community is really growing around here anyways. Lot of returning people who fell out because of 6E but are back because: 7E.

 

30 people at the last tournament I played in which was this Saturday.

My biggest issue is the reliance on models you may or may not have. Skyfire, Str D weapons, etc. The power creep exploded, and just a fun game is harder to come by. That's the rub IMO.

[Lord Hanaur]

The cheese moved, I won't say that it didn't.  I don't know that it moved this far. 

 

Like when you first started, and the game was new to you, there were a lot of armies and things to learn.  Once you assimilate that stuff, your list kind of morphs to handle the new reality.  I know it will be a bit jarring to have to "reset" a little and kind of treat it as a new experience.  But the new experience, once you have it down is really no different than the jarring thing it was when you started way back in the day.

 

It doesn't take long to find a few things I don't like, such as invisibility or the crazy Wraith Knight spam.  Those things were mistakes.  The reality though is that you don't need to do much to make the rules good again.  The ITC has gone too far, but they did kind of champion some of the main things you'd want to change in the game.  but I do see what you mean as far as having to agree to ground rules beforehand.  An FAQ from GW would greatly simplify everyones experience. 

 

Privateer Press and other "model" companies have shown the way and maybe when GW stops being so internally full of itself, and senses the threat that X-Wing and other games are to them, they will come around.  Until then I think the same rule that applied before applies now:  if its a list you simply cant handle, tell them so and ask them for a concession.  Do your best if they say no, see IF your fears are really founded and if they are, ask again.  And if he can't bring himself to do it, you know what you must do.

 

Here are the simple rules I have adopted at my events:

1.  0-1 Super Heavies/Gargantuans.  Sorry.

2.  Up to Three Detachments (regardless of whether they are "in" a Super detachment or not).  if you take a third detachment, it must be a Combined Arms Detachment.  Solved 90% of our power creep problems (nothings perfect but doing nothing isn't an option).

3.  No Forge World in a 40K game.  Feel free to play it in 30K games of course as you'll generally have little choice.

4.  Invisibility is nerf'd to BS and WS 1, as the ITC does it.

 

That's more or less it.  Everything else is by the book.  Roll it off if you don't agree and if its so important the game hangs in the balance, call me over and I'll decide.  better to call me over before it actually matters though.

 

So I mean with just those simple things we have pretty peaceful tournaments.  Not much drama going on.  Most people know their codex, most people don't cheat.  People are able to disagree, look it up, decide, roll off or call me but players should play.  Some get a little worked up.  But it's a game, it's supposed to be fun.  I like winning as much or more than the next guy.  But I don't hate the losing as much as most.  I think it's when you hate the losing so much, that you start really having a problem having fun.  Without the winning, for some, it just isn't fun.  Weird since its an awesome game with coolio models.  But true.

 

That's why I play like 100 games.  I love playing with models.  the rules are cool and all but really...  I like the strategy and the thinking and the problem solving and the planning and counter planning.  The mental exercise is pretty cool all on its own.

[pretre]

This exactly. You can't just show up and expect a good game at a tournament or a game night without a previous discussion with your opponent. That's why I don't play anymore, and if I do it's with friends at home.

I don't think this is any different than it ever was. If you bring a fluffy army with no concern for competitiveness in 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc, you were going to have a bad time. The same is still true.

 

And all the game nights, tournaments that I know about follow a guideline for lists (generally ITC), so you know exactly what you're getting into.

[fluger]

While I agree that the degree of "brokenness" of 7th edition is right on par with previous editions, it does FEEL different.  The scale is definitely bigger not just with the inclusion of Superheavies and the like, but the points values we generally play at are bigger (3rd edition was mostly 1500 and I only remember going to 1750 in early 5th edition) and the points values of most identical units are down.  

 

A 1500 pt army from 4th or even 5th edition would be about 20 models short for a standard 1850 game and would probably (almost certainly) lack a lot of the tools to play in the new game.  

 

Maelstrom and ITC missions both favor mobility and 5th edition lists could be much more static and passive.  

 

So, while I don't think the game is more broken, it is certainly different, but I don't think that's a function of moving away from the Force Org, more just a shift in how 40k works.  

 

Ultimately, I think it is a question of taste rather than objective imbalance concerns.

[evil_bryan]

This league is all about playing and having fun. It only exists to get people back to playing this game and enjoying the experience.

 

I enjoy the game in it's currently iteration, and enjoy the vast variety in the game. That being said, I love the idea of taking a step back and getting people back to the table to throw some dice.

 

I hope to finalize the league details this weekend, but for those of you who want to start building and planning here are some highlights:

• Point levels can vary, but there will be bonuses for playing at 1500 and 2000 points
• No superheavies, no fortifications, no gargantuan creatures
• Flyers will count as skimmers,  Flying creatures will be jump pack creatures
• Old School Force Org will be uses (1 HQ + 2 Troops minimum)
• Lords of Wars (that don't violate the restrictions) will count as HQ choices

Also, league games can be played anywhere. The entry fee will be $20 ($10 for Warlord Champs and above). League games played at the WOW clubhouse will not require game night fees.

 

Points will be earned for playing, achievements, and bonuses. Winning games will not provide points.

[Threejacks]

This league is all about playing and having fun. It only exists to get people back to playing this game and enjoying the experience.

 

I enjoy the game in it's currently iteration, and enjoy the vast variety in the game. That being said, I love the idea of taking a step back and getting people back to the table to throw some dice.

 

I hope to finalize the league details this weekend, but for those of you who want to start building and planning here are some highlights:

• Point levels can vary, but there will be bonuses for playing at 1500 and 2000 points
• No superheavies, no fortifications, no gargantuan creatures
• Flyers will count as skimmers,  Flying creatures will be jump pack creatures
• Old School Force Org will be uses (1 HQ + 2 Troops minimum)
• Lords of Wars (that don't violate the restrictions) will count as HQ choices

Also, league games can be played anywhere. The entry fee will be $20 ($10 for Warlord Champs and above). League games played at the WOW clubhouse will not require game night fees.

 

Points will be earned for playing, achievements, and bonuses. Winning games will not provide points.

 

 

OK,,I may just do this.A bit concerned about some possible lists though,,,Triptide comes to mind.

[pretre]

1) To an extent, yes. I could show up at any event or game night pre-formation/super heavy era with an army, and expect a fun game. If I took that same army to a modern multi-CAD Super Heavy game, there is no way in hell it would be fun (for me anyway.)

 

I mean, I can't argue your experience, but there were plenty of events in previous editions where you could show up and get rolled over by a super-abusive combo or allies list, whatever.

[Nathanvoodoo]

All debates aside, enjoying a game is subjective.

 

I appreciate that I won't need to study all the newest formations or books or white dwarfs in and out to have a clue about what is going on.

 

Really I just want to play the game again- and it's been pretty hard to find casual games lately around here- at least with players who aren't just going to completely power game me. I like playing games with people that just play the game casually- and don't have every book, know every rule, study all the boards and refer to themselves as 'generals'- it's really hard to find those players.

 

I still want to use an aegis defence line and I still want to know if I can use inquisitors and assassins.

[Lord Hanaur]

AEGIS lines and inquisitors, assassins, all that are a part of the deal now.

[generalripphook]

I like playing games with people that just play the game casually- and don't have every book, know every rule, study all the boards and refer to themselves as 'generals'...

 

 

Oooh that is awkward....

[Nathanvoodoo]

It's not a dig on those players- I just don't play that way- thus I don't usually enjoy games with them. I have played fun games with them- but often, for both of us- it's kinda a waste of time.

 

I like the idea of evening the play field and bringing casual players together again.

[pretre]

I like the idea of evening the play field and bringing casual players together again.

If only there was a multi-day event focused on evening the playing field and getting in a lot of good games... :)

[fluger]

If only there was a multi-day event focused on evening the playing field and getting in a lot of good games... :)

If only you'd join a team...

[pretre]

If only you'd join a team...

That assumes that a team would want me and that I want to get in good games. :)

[WestRider]

That assumes that a team would want me and that I want to get in good games. :)

Yeah, yeah, you're always just all about crushing your enemy, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their tiny plastic dudeguys... ;)

[generalripphook]

It's not a dig on those players- I just don't play that way- thus I don't usually enjoy games with them. I have played fun games with them- but often, for both of us- it's kinda a waste of time.

 

I like the idea of evening the play field and bringing casual players together again.

I just said that because my handle had general in it haha

[pretre]

Yeah, yeah, you're always just all about crushing your enemy, seeing them driven before you, and hearing the lamentations of their tiny plastic dudeguys... ;)

Exactly!

[evil_bryan]

The official post is now up!

 

http://www.ordofanaticus.com/index.php?/topic/27702-spring-40k-old-school-league-getting-foced/

[Brother Glacius]

I have a question about ad mech. Each codex has an army wide special rule that allows the player to choose an effect for the game turn. However, they are named differently and have different effects. So for the purpose of the league, are all forces considered to have one of those special rules? or do I need to keep them separate based on the actual codex and activate each one on a given turn?