Fixxer

I have never had an issue playing and feeling competitive with Orcs and Goblins. The book was NOT designed for 7th as it was the first book to come out for 8th. IF anything, the SKAVEN book, being one of the last released for 7th, was designed for 8th in mind. Skaven is a confusing army book with a lot of side rules, they are surely competitive. I think every army can be, in the hands of the right general. People who are on here saying that O&G are a low tier army really dont understand their advantages and perhaps think about the book as if it were WoC or an Ogre book. O&G rely on their diversity and sheer number of models that can be fielded. Careful and patient movement phases and the ability to adapt when an animosity test or stupidity test is failed. Basically you cant be stuck on a divine strategy, gotta learn to improvise a little given the MINOR unpredictability the newest book brings. In my 2800-3000 point army I typically bring 40 biguns, 40 black orcs, 60 ngs, and 12 trolls with a couple warmachines and other chaff/flack. My main blocks, if they can, keep a strong battleline are practically unapproachable. Ive NEVER felt like i was at a disadvantage with this army, nor would I make any excuses for it. Steadfast is a great rule, cheap T4 troops are invaluable, cheap regen, cheap WMs, I dont see a problem.... at all. A lot of talk about bringing 'filth' too, what are you waiting for? This is war.

Its funny that this thread is posted after I played one of the most enjoyable games Ive played in a really long time. Funny that both experiences happened under the same roof...

Thats why I use orcs on boars with GW's instead, yeah their slower, but the T5 is invaluable. I typically run 2 of them.

Go with the Lord of Change. I agree with DPs too much of a gamble in DoC armies. The giant chicken is a really cool model too, the only greater daemon model that has stood the test of time, IMO.

Your main fighting force between the BO's, BigUns, and Boarboyz are all orcs, you need ORC magic. Get a level 2 in with the BO's and put your BSB with your big uns to quell animosity, that makes both of your main blocks immune to squabble. Orc shamans are awesome, they are tough and can buff up with magic, the character sniping is great, and hand of gork can win games... as a horde of black orcs suddenly appear on your flank... 40 is satisfactory on Orcs. 50 is too many, straight up. I like everything else in the list, that is my only suggestion.

I use as many of the champion orcs as I can. They are included with the regular boyz set...and the sprue with the musician/banner has 3 other bodies that work well for big uns also. After that, I put on as many shoulder pads and helmets as I could find and my block of 40 look pretty big uny. I think you could make some adjustments to some 40k nobz as well. I run choppa and board for the 5+6+ I go deep as opposed to horde and I really like the war-banner in there. Its just solid and gives the boyz an incredible static combat rez that can be tough to earn back through wounds. BSB typically finds himself there too for even more... Most people take savage big uns, too unpredictable with animosity and frenzy checks, Ill stick with my regular boyz.

I dont agree with this at all. There is a lot of strategy in being mobile and knowing where to attack and when. WM can decimate WoC as well as a few good spells because you simply dont have many wounds on the table. The lack of static res will always be a problem, they must generate wounds, they are an army without rerolls so whiffing does happen, all too often. So with that said, steadfast is the bane of MSU warrior armies. Sure you do a ton of damage on a charge, but with 2 ranks(typically all thats needed), opponents are steadfast and hold you up for some counter-charges. Gotta pick and choose where you attack, cant just go in there willy nilly.... As for a daemon prince, Id go with Belakor

Its been fun thinking about this today while at work. Again, I do agree that you dont take a unit like this head on, its never going to end well. When people deploy deathstars games have a tendency to turn into a skirmish. I do like that this deathstar tho, it is fast and can pull off some long charges making this unit more deadly than your typical infantry horde or gutstar. I would try not to fight it as best I could. As for units that are similar in points that could stand up to it.... The only few I could think of were: - Horde of Khorne warriors/GW and Full command, with the frenzy banner, no characters. This would simply rely on steadfast and straight killing ability. - Dragon princes with the BOWD and 2-3 nobles with GWs. Deny magic weapon kills while killing your cauldron/RnF with GWs. Both of those could certainly dismantle your bus before their inevitable demise.

thats a brutal unit.

THey are also affected by all rules for psychology..... take a fear test. Bout time Nurgle got some love. Only one left to do is Tzeenchs god unique unit, what could they possible do for them?

Greyson got my favorite opponent pin and he DID beat me in the last turn with an epic TRANSFORMATION of Kadon, he took a very entertaining chance to steal the game. He was pleasant, knew the rules, and won with grace. Its always hard to decide who gets the favorite opponent pin, 99% of players are there for the right reasons, but my criteria is typically a loss/draw and someone who knows the rules of the game really well. Appreciate the discussion here.... dont like insinuation that organizers are slighting anyone with their method. FaildCharge: I would NEVER give a favorite opponent pin or a high sports rating to someone who brought the Chaos Dwarf army, just my opinion. I feel it is an exclusive army that is NOT part of the common rule set. I feel the same way about any of the FAN made books online. I was thrilled that I didnt see any NORSE or DOW this year. I think its just too much to ask players to have to learn about those armies during the game. Too many mistakes and oversights are made in the game anyway, we dont need obscure books that arent available commonly in game stores.

Pivots are not reforms. Okay, so if Skirmishers can reform as many times as they want during the movement phase, whats to say they dont reform during the first few inches of their move and then again at the end. The skirmisher rules state that they can reform as many times as they want, not pivot. I do agree that the process should be roll 3D6 to calculate movement, reform, push models straight forward, reform. While not allowing a single model to move MORE than the double their movement (distance rolled) which would be plenty enough reform them anyway they want. The rules kind of marry, its just the process of execution.

^^^Truth, and thank you Sylvos for your clarity on the rule and personal conduct, well said. I saw a few of these games in action, and appreciate the thoughtfulness of the tactic given I had never thought of it before. Squig hoppers are the ONLY random movement skirmisher, if Im not mistaken. I interpret it as a legal move as Sylvos has clearly described above. I was in fact taken back by the tactic in the opposite way. I thought it was a brilliant move. Rules questions are very important. In the few games I watched where that tactic was deployed I dont believe a single player made a scruff because of, yes sportsmanship, guy was an excellent player. I do see the point in bringing it up later, having a full discussion on the matter because it is an important element of the game and should not be clarified at a single table, but to the community as a whole.

Ditch the warriors, If you are going to rock a dragon I would recommend small units of forsaken, marauder horse, dogs, and then of course core chariots so that you can litter the battlefield with chaff and smash. This will allow you to out-deploy your opponent to know exactly where your dragon will be most effective in the battle. It will cover the core tax and those units are fast allowing you to put yourself in the battles you want while chaffing anything that could disrupt your main attack. This also makes your opponents shooting/magic phases more difficult in that they will have too many fast targets and not enough turn to affect them all by the time they hit home. I think a Khorne/Slaanesh mix would suit this theme. Forsaken are completely underrated in lists like this. M6 T4 4+... core... units of 5...as many as you want.... yes, please. Id go Slaanesh on these for the swiftstride. Marauder Horse are best as Slaanesh given you CAN flee with them without caring about panic. Khorne Chariots for sure Khorne Knights Doggy dogs -I would not upgrade them at all, I preserve dogs for later round flank denial. 2 wide is totally legal. Gotta agree with MexicanNinja on the Juggernutzz as well. Multiply these choices as necessary... Bring that dragon, a bsb, and a lv2, youre smashing face proper in WARHAMMER FANTASY BATTLES ...the best game ever. My 2 Cents... ******I had a great weekend playing Warhammer with all you guys AND gals. Thank you OFCC volunteers and crew, you put on a great event as always. Til' next year

Franks Noodle House is a hidden gem. Right on, you chose correctly!

Jim, Ill be coming up for this... Sign me up. Skaven or WoC.

I personally dont ever play with special characters in my armies, but have never had an issue facing them. I dont see what the big deal is, they are expensive and typically do nominally more than a kitted character. Options are options and I feel like more the merrier, adds longevity to the game.

Wow, this again. Fantasy has never been better. The model kits, the game, the community. Sci Fi is simply more popular in our CULTURE, therefor 40k WILL be more popular on the surface. This doesnt mean that Fantasy is failing or in need of anything. I really dont see any basis for this thread other than personal preference. You have armies BroG, you are constantly trying to sell them on this site, I see it all the time. YOU just gotta PLAY THE GAME. 1000 points if that all you can AFFORD, then save up, take time, paint your models. The options are already there for smaller games. This is not an instant gratification kind of endeavor, its a labor of love and time, which isnt for everyone. Id rather only play against people who are in it for the right reasons, having to play casual gamers in a game that takes dedication can be boring. I do like the exclusivity of the game and the type of people it takes to execute. Anyone who has a fully painted fantasy army is a dedicated hard worker and it will show in their personality and the way they play the game, those are the people I seek out to spend time with in this hobby. Casual Warhammerers got it all wrong, they want to come in drop $200 (not anymore! ) every time the new "top" [big bad swear word] comes out and are so WAAC that they need to dumb down the rules to make it easier for them, no thanks. Every army in this game has a learning curve, some are less obvious than others, take the time, every army doesnt play like WoC. The game doesnt need saving, Its more fun now than its ever been. IMHO.

more PIX

The model ROCKS! I am not an undead player, but to see Nagash revamped is really encouraging for me in this hobby. I cant wait to see the next wave of evil, supposedly chaos chosen plastic kit and some Nurgle loving... Uh oh sissys.

The horse is dead....

Rudra, I do plan on making it down Sunday, I would like to get in a couple games in also.

Ill be there with my ofcc list. I hope to get a couple games in today if possible!

That list is fully capable. Warhammer is about adaptation. Because most people will have never faced an entire forest spirit army, it will give you an edge on where the power is hidden. Again, like you said people SCOFF at tree spirits and wont give them respect on the battlefield. UNTIL they realize that the only way to get points is to kill units outright, with this army, that is going to be a headache. If you can keep close proximity in your advance and get into combined combats, and use simple buffs and hexes in those combats, I feel like this list can maul people. My only suggestion would be to keep the dryads at a minimum of 20. They are your ranks and in combined combats you want at least 2 ranks when the fighting starts. Id go 20/20/23. Other than that, I really like this list and think it would be a fun challenge to play, i hope you follow through with it.

If you want very nice things...... you gotta pay for them. I know that action figures run a little less if thats what you are into. AND HEY, you can make up your OWN rules too! Imagine that? Warhammer is an expensive hobby, that will never change.