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OFCC list feedback - AdMech/Knights


templar

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I'm looking for feedback on my and my team's lists for the upcoming OFCC event. I have my list complete, and wanted to get an idea on if it's too comp or just what.

The list is built with the idea in mind that FW Metalica has been known to party often with the Knights of House Raven... but as always, Mars is keeping an eye over how closely that 'relationship' is getting. (basically it's a Mars/Metalica/House Raven list)

13 total CP - 1995 pts

FW: Mars - Battalion 

Belisarius Cawl

Tech-Priest Enginseer

3x5 Skitarii Rangers (2x Transuranic Arquebus, Omnispex)

1x10 Sicarian Infiltrators

FW: Metalica - Battalion

Tech-Priest Enginseer

Tech-Priest Manipulus

6x5 Skitarii Vanguards (2x Plasma Caliver)

1x10 Fulgurite Electro Priests

Terrax-Pattern Termite Assault Drill

House Raven - Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment

Knight Castellan (1x Siegebreaker Cannon, 4x Shieldbreaker Missiles)

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See... I don't understand the sentiment. The castellan is rumored to get a points bump, Cawl is expensive and limiting. 

I mean, I don't even see breachers in there. Seems like an OK list. 

 

Then again I don't understand the idea that people can be told not to play things. 40k is far beyond the days of 7ths forge hammer and formations. We have specialist detachments sure but it's not the same thing. 

 

I guess my point is that 40k is far more balanced today than in previous editions. 

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In an actual competitive environment, I agree with you 100%. But the OFCC is a whole different kind of event. The ideal here is five games where both players have a good time, win, lose, or draw, and the way the Castellan can just erase swathes of an enemy Army tends to make it not fun to play against unless the other Army and Player are both ready for a high level game.

And yes, overall, balance in 40K is better than it's ever been. But the Castellan is inarguably the biggest outlier in the game as it stands. It's warping the entire competitive meta, and its mere presence makes a lot of stuff more or less unplayable.

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At the top of turn 2, I once got a Castellan down to 3 wounds left. Then bottom of turn two ended and I had no army left. 😃

I was the captain of my team so considered it "taking one for the team" as almost no one else on my team had a list that would have fun playing against a Castellan plus two other knights plus IG. I had fun when I rolled for turn 1 and got it combined with playing GSC with only their index entries, my opponent was sweating just a little bit. Then my turn one charges failed and we had a good laugh.

Knights can fit into OFCC with proper planning and understanding of what others will bring. In my opinion, they better be painted like a golden daemon if i have to look at it across the table! 😋

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I mean, isn't the goal to have fun? Some people have fun with a castellan. 

 

Once again, we have a FAQ coming that is supposed to address the castellan. Let's wait for that and see how it works. 

As for it killing your army.... Too many big things? Trust me I get those feels. My orks can't field vehicles because the castellan and the any tank to kill it exist

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42 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

I mean, isn't the goal to have fun? Some people have fun with a castellan.

If one person having fun with a Castellan means that five people have bad games, that's a bad tradeoff. I did the same thing as Disruptive Conduct last year, taking on a Castellan list so no one else on my team would have to deal with it, and because I had one of the stronger lists on the team. I was tabled by Turn 3. That happened twice, actually.

There are events all the time, all over the place that cater to people who want to run Castellans or Ynnari or whatever, bring their hardest list and their A-game and throw down. The OFCC is one of the very few that cater to the rest of the spectrum of 40K. If that's not your thing, that's fine, but we don't want to lose what makes the OFCC unique and special and have it turn into just one more tournament like all the rest.

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So it would appear that the existence of a Castellan is too much... is it the same response to a Shadowsword in a Guard list?

Secondary to that question, what's the consensus on the following list?

Daemon Battalion (Nurgle):

Poxbringer

Poxbringer

Spoilpox Scrivener

2x3 Nurglings

1x30 Plaguebearers (icon and instrument)

Daemon Battalion (Mixed):

Be'Lakor

Changecaster

1x3 Nurglings

1x30 Bloodletters (icon and instrument)

1x25 Pink Horrors (Icon)

1x6 Flamers

Supreme Command Detachment (Khorne):

Bloodmaster

Skulltaker

Skarbrand

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I was halfway through writing a response when i saw you changed directions.  Belakor used to be super silly pants.  No idea if he is anymore but the rest of the list looks scary.  30 Bloodletters with some crazy buffs (kinda like you do the Tzangors) looks super mean.  same deal with the plague bearers.  pretty big wall of nastiness.  Ton of characters.  Looks like it would be pretty skery but I think it will be hated far less than the first list!  

I think the issue for most people on the Castellan is that it is such a jarring amount of damage that it just points nad deletes three things until it gets to hordes.  Even hodes hate it though they hate it less.

I have a Stormlord but Ive never actually used it.  But my friend borrows my stuff to play and I watched his game using it and it was a really impressive machine but ti didnt feel like it was as scary as the Castellan (and plus a Castellan would laugh it off the table which kinda answers the question because nne of those IG tanks can do the same to him).

 

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25 minutes ago, templar said:

So it would appear that the existence of a Castellan is too much... is it the same response to a Shadowsword in a Guard list?

Secondary to that question, what's the consensus on the following list?

Daemon Battalion (Nurgle):

Poxbringer

Poxbringer

Spoilpox Scrivener

2x3 Nurglings

1x30 Plaguebearers (icon and instrument)

Daemon Battalion (Mixed):

Be'Lakor

Changecaster

1x3 Nurglings

1x30 Bloodletters (icon and instrument)

1x25 Pink Horrors (Icon)

1x6 Flamers

Supreme Command Detachment (Khorne):

Bloodmaster

Skulltaker

Skarbrand

Shadowsword has about half the firepower against pretty much anything short of other super-heavies, doesn't have an Invul, and can't fight worth a damn when something gets in contact with it. It can also be tri-pointed much more easily, can't hit multiple Units as effectively, and doesn't have anywhere near the Stratagem support that a Castellan (especially from House Raven) has.

That Daemon list looks fine to me. It certainly has some very powerful Units, but nothing that can't be screened against or taken down with small arms fire or basic Attacks in reasonable quantity.

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1 minute ago, DisruptiveConduct said:

I brought a Shadowsword with my GSC last OFCC and none of my opponents seemed to mind blowing it up every game. 😃

On the other side of the coin, we did have some one running a three Knight list end up with one of the top sports scores that year. Where is that dude? He coming back again this year??

Knight codex wasn't out last year at that time though correct? I figured my multi-Knight list would be considered too much. The funny thing about the Stormsword though, in a recent game I just played, it shot the Castellan off the board. That was with the Castellan spending a boatload of CP to rotate and leverage the Raven strat, but still lost in the end.

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22 minutes ago, templar said:

Knight codex wasn't out last year at that time though correct? I figured my multi-Knight list would be considered too much. The funny thing about the Stormsword though, in a recent game I just played, it shot the Castellan off the board. That was with the Castellan spending a boatload of CP to rotate and leverage the Raven strat, but still lost in the end.

I just don't think the IG super heavies are as much of a concern.  Don't even get me started about their busted ass Forge world stuff, but the codex stuff has seemed to be fine and not "ohmuhgerd, what do I do" inducing.

 

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38 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

I get the point but to me. It's OFCC telling people how they are or are not allowed to have fun. 

I understand the point you are trying to make, but IMO this isn't that at all. This is not OFCC saying '"no Castellans allowed." The OP asked for feedback, and the (so far) consensus from other OFCC players is that they would not enjoy playing against a Castellan. 

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54 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

I get the point but to me. It's OFCC telling people how they are or are not allowed to have fun. 

hmmm a point missed perhaps... as already stated.  It isn't about the one player ... it is about the many players.  Specifically - five great games... the 5 unknown opponents that this player would face..  This of course is to the inclusion of the player brining the list in question.  It is in cooperation to be sure everyone has a great time.  

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9 minutes ago, Lyraeus said:

So my job is now to police the fun of others. 

Giving honest feedback as to what you prefer to not play against is hardly "policing." If you enjoy playing against Knights, or enjoy playing with them, nobody would fault you on that point. But the idea of "I'm going to bring a Castellans and anyone who doesn't want to play against it is trying to tell me how to have fun" is silly. 

I've got a Wraithknight. I don't think they are overpowered, and certainly not in the all Iyanden list I'm using him for. If the consensus from other OFCC players was "I would prefer not to play against a Wraithknight," I would bring something else. Because "having fun" means myself and my opponent both enjoy our game.

OFCC is different kind of tournament than other, more competitive events. If the only way someone can have fun is by bringing a 
Castellan, than may be OFCC isn't the event for that person.

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22 minutes ago, Lord Hanaur said:

OFCC went way toward the competitive side compared to its previous self, so if you think THIS is restrictive, you'd have been positively fit to be tied before this.  Lol.

 

 

Most likely. 7th edition OFCC sounded like hell... but I didn't like 7th and felt it represented everything I hated about GW. 

 

8th is comparatively balanced. 

 

I do get the feel bad thing but it's not a Ynarri Flyer Spam... 

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3 hours ago, DisruptiveConduct said:

I brought a Shadowsword with my GSC last OFCC and none of my opponents seemed to mind blowing it up every game. 😃

On the other side of the coin, we did have some one running a three Knight list end up with one of the top sports scores that year. Where is that dude? He coming back again this year??

Are you referring to @Sugarlessllama?

I can't remember exactly how many favorite opponent pins he got (I think 3, maybe 2), but he was on our team and we took home the Marshall Johnson.

We, and thus, he, will be back. He's bringing smurfs this year I think, though.

Or maybe you're talking about some other nice guy who ran knights. In which case, I'll find out who and beat him up in the bathroom. There can only be one.

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4 hours ago, Skkipper said:

If you truly feel this way maybe ofcc isn’t for you. If you think a lost can win all its games your list is too strong. 

Ah, thank you for that. You prove my point. 

If you think your list is what wins games I will gladly disprove that. People win games not just with their list but hey, if you want to say people only win because they have X or they have Y then I guess player skill doesn't really matter

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