New Tau - Giant Fethin' Riptide with Missiles, New FireW and Stealth Riptide

[generalripphook]

I meant in real life. Humans, compared to other mammals have overly large breasts and penises. A gorilla penis is barely an inch long when erect.

Goats have one of the biggest balls to body ratios.

[Guest]

This is, in fact, part of the problem- the default assumption that a model is only female if it is displaying female sexual characteristics (and is otherwise male because male is the "standard" and female the exception) is a rather toxic mindset that a lot of people are struggling to counteract.

That was my point exactly.

 

I'd been assuming Samus was a robot the entire time, it's not like she got out of that suit when I played it on super nintendo, so why would I conclude it was a suit at all? It was one of the Super Smash Brothers games that distinguished that character's gender (and the fact that it was power armor...).

 

But really, that's no different that the GW vampires, as I pointed out before. The issue is that GW is selling an entire line of humans and a second entire line of humans, so if people only buy the humans because humans are really just close mouthed vampires, then GW has an entire line of product not selling.

 

Honestly, despite how awesome the Sisters look, GW should just put females back into the SM fluff. There's no reason a standard SM model couldn't be a chick in power armor. They don't need another model, but they do need to fix the fluff.

[InfestedKerrigan]

That was my point exactly.

 

I'd been assuming Samus was a robot the entire time, it's not like she got out of that suit when I played it on super nintendo, so why would I conclude it was a suit at all? It was one of the Super Smash Brothers games that distinguished that character's gender (and the fact that it was power armor...).

 

But really, that's no different that the GW vampires, as I pointed out before. The issue is that GW is selling an entire line of humans and a second entire line of humans, so if people only buy the humans because humans are really just close mouthed vampires, then GW has an entire line of product not selling.

 

Honestly, despite how awesome the Sisters look, GW should just put females back into the SM fluff. There's no reason a standard SM model couldn't be a chick in power armor. They don't need another model, but they do need to fix the fluff.

 

[Guest]

?

[AbusePuppy]

But really, that's no different that the GW vampires, as I pointed out before. The issue is that GW is selling an entire line of humans and a second entire line of humans, so if people only buy the humans because humans are really just close mouthed vampires, then GW has an entire line of product not selling.

 

Well, there is something of a difference there- namely, that being vampires (as opposed to humans) is a relevant part of the identity of the model. Vampires are drastically different from humans in that they are unliving, immortal, regenerate, drink blood, etc, etc; the visual shorthand we use for these qualities is the fangs, hence the open-mouthed gapes of most of the WFB line of vampires. Without fangs, they'd just look like regular humans and be rather bland.

 

To contrast, being female is not (or at the very least shouldn't) be a major part of the identity of other models. The idea that men and women are radically different (in terms of physical or mental capabilities) is part of the root of the problem, so you can't really compare the signifying factors on a vampire model (which indicate its fundamentally different nature) from those on a female model (which should not do so.) Moreover, the signifying factors typically used for female models are sexual characteristics, in essence reducing the status of womanhood to a purely sexual role. In this view, women exist for sex first and foremost and it is the trait that defines them; anything else they might be or do is secondary to that.

 

 

Honestly, despite how awesome the Sisters look, GW should just put females back into the SM fluff. There's no reason a standard SM model couldn't be a chick in power armor. They don't need another model, but they do need to fix the fluff.

 

You could have female Marines and Sisters of Battle both in the game in theory, since they are theoretically very different. Thematically and aesthetically, though, that would probably be too much overlap, since Sisters have a hard enough time already differentiating themselves from the other (superior) power armor codices in the game.

 

I just slap female heads on my Marine torsos and tell GW to sit on it, tho. Screwing with fanboys is fun.

[Guest]

Well, there is something of a difference there- namely, that being vampires (as opposed to humans) is a relevant part of the identity of the model. Vampires are drastically different from humans in that they are unliving, immortal, regenerate, drink blood, etc, etc; the visual shorthand we use for these qualities is the fangs, hence the open-mouthed gapes of most of the WFB line of vampires. Without fangs, they'd just look like regular humans and be rather bland.

 

To contrast, being female is not (or at the very least shouldn't) be a major part of the identity of other models. The idea that men and women are radically different (in terms of physical or mental capabilities) is part of the root of the problem, so you can't really compare the signifying factors on a vampire model (which indicate its fundamentally different nature) from those on a female model (which should not do so.) Moreover, the signifying factors typically used for female models are sexual characteristics, in essence reducing the status of womanhood to a purely sexual role. In this view, women exist for sex first and foremost and it is the trait that defines them; anything else they might be or do is secondary to that.

 

 

You could have female Marines and Sisters of Battle both in the game in theory, since they are theoretically very different. Thematically and aesthetically, though, that would probably be too much overlap, since Sisters have a hard enough time already differentiating themselves from the other (superior) power armor codices in the game.

 

I just slap female heads on my Marine torsos and tell GW to sit on it, tho. Screwing with fanboys is fun.

Definitely the same thing. Vampires are not purely defined by their teeth and much of their continued existence relates to their continued ability to blend with humans in a visual capacity (or with whatever species they were formerly). There's no reason they'd need to always have their "vampy bits" revealed to define them as vampires.

 

As for females. The deal is that females in armor looks about the same as males in armor. Even long hair and unshaven faces doesn't really mean male or female. If anything, putting long hair on marines and saying that makes them female is only reinforcing the very stereotypes that you are intending to counter.

 

If trying to counter the stereotype of a female model requiring "girly bits" to be female, the best thing to do is to just leave all models ambiguous in terms of gender. It's not like tyranids care what gender of space marine they take bio-matter from....

[WestRider]

I just assume that under Power Armour and a helmet (or even Flack Armour and a helmet, plus a sports bra or equivalent), there's not going to really be much of a noticeable difference when things are scaled down to 1/48 or so of their normal size. About half of the Models in any of my human Armies are female as far as I'm concerned.

[Guest]

I just assume that under Power Armour and a helmet (or even Flack Armour and a helmet, plus a sports bra or equivalent), there's not going to really be much of a noticeable difference when things are scaled down to 1/48 or so of their normal size. About half of the Models in any of my human Armies are female as far as I'm concerned.

Plus, there are a few noted chapters that never take off their power armor (including helmets), so there is quite a bit of room for diversity under the armor.

 

I don't really think the Apothecarium would care if the geneseed is male or female, provided it's pure.

[AbusePuppy]

Definitely the same thing. Vampires are not purely defined by their teeth and much of their continued existence relates to their continued ability to blend with humans in a visual capacity (or with whatever species they were formerly). There's no reason they'd need to always have their "vampy bits" revealed to define them as vampires.

 

No, it really isn't. Visually and iconically vampires are defined by their pointed teeth (and occasionally by other minor traits, such as unusual eyes, pale skin, etc.) While the "realistic" thing for such a creature to do would be to hide these traits, for the purpose of audience recognition, such traits are normally displayed in a particularly visible way even when they might otherwise be a lot more subtle. (I mean, how often do you actually look at someone's teeth in day-to-day life?) The point is to differentiate the vampire from the normal by highlighting its differences, even minor as they be.

 

That logic doesn't (or more properly, shouldn't) apply when taken in the context of male vs. female, however. Males should not be the "normal" when taking the pattern of the above example, from which a female model/character is differentiated by highlighting differences; this implies that being female is a deviation from the standard or assumption.

 

I'll also take a moment to point out that your logic about "hiding their nature" is fundamentally flawed within the context of WFB and the Vampire Counts- a vampire in that setting (and, indeed, in the context of a massive battle of armies) has absolutely no reason to hide its vampiric nature, as their enemy has presumably already discerned what they are facing thanks to the horde of ravening undead monstrousities they are facing.

 

 

As for females. The deal is that females in armor looks about the same as males in armor. Even long hair and unshaven faces doesn't really mean male or female. If anything, putting long hair on marines and saying that makes them female is only reinforcing the very stereotypes that you are intending to counter.

 

This is actually just you showcasing your own assumptions- I never said anything about what kind of hair I gave all my female models, and indeed most of them have short hair because I think long hair looks kinda silly with a helmet.

[InfestedKerrigan]

 

+10

QFT

[Guest]

This is actually just you showcasing your own assumptions- I never said anything about what kind of hair I gave all my female models, and indeed most of them have short hair because I think long hair looks kinda silly with a helmet.

I just slap female heads on my Marine torsos and tell GW to sit on it, tho. Screwing with fanboys is fun.

You just really want to debate this one, huh? I agree that females are often seen by others are some sort of male add-on. I mostly agree and it really seems like you want to debate the portions where my views are not yours, rather than agreeing on the larger portions where we agree.

 

I don't see actual women as variants of males, but in most games and sci-fi products, it is certainly the case. Sort of like how most games use humans as the default, and every race is a variant of humanity.

 

As for "female heads" which are not long haired clean shaven, I guess I'm not sure what you meant then.

 

I was saying that you could just say the existing helmeted heads have females underneath, which would avoid any sort of actual model requirements or disputing. The ONLY reason my space marines are males is because GW's fluff seems pretty clear cut that space marines are all males.

 

Personally, I don't think of the models as being gendered in any respect other than fluff. It's a model, it doesn't have a gender anymore than a statue or painting has a gender. Maybe if we had a magic cupboard we could ask their opinion, but I don't have one.

[InfestedKerrigan]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm liking the Battle Suits.  I'm looking forward to seeing the new Tau toys on the Table.  The height on the Heavy Suit is sweet.  Can't wait to see a size shot of the FW one comparatively.  Perhaps it is the size of the FW Knights.  That Firewarrior concept art looks a bit awkward, though.  Too much of a Golden Mega Man.

[PourSpelur]

Yeah, had no idea this was a woman for quite some time.

[Lord Hanaur]

holy crap this thread went off the rails.

[spagunk]

Yeah, it was established at the beginning that Samus was a woman. Not clearly unless you beat the game/entered this code but a very simplistic "dun dun DUN!" moment. Relevant as kids normally just assume that the big hero must be a dude.

 

It was only somewhat recently that they started to over-sexualize her appearance (anime class big boobs etc.) though the Super Nintendo version didn't help with that (when you exploded, you saw a definite hypersexed silhouette and also a bikini image when you beat the game under some special condition). Metroid prime avoided that entirely as there wasn't much skin to be shown. So from what I have played of the Metroid Prime series, you don't get hardly any stereotyping.

 

Not to say they didn't play the stereotype of long hair = girl but it is what it is.

[InfestedKerrigan]

holy crap this thread went off the rails.

 

This surprises you, how?

[Lord Hanaur]

Oh I suppose I shouldn't be by now.  Hehehe.

[pretre]

[fluger]

I love where this thread has gone!

 

[InfestedKerrigan]

 

Plastic Crisis Suit with Torso Articulation!  Yay!

[pretre]

Dammit. Nm. Pic won't link.

[pretre]

 

 

Time for some Breacher Team rules from Warseer!
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=221100&d=1444414304
http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=221101&d=1444414326

I must admit, this looks pretty darn good  ~8) !

[pretre]

http://www.warseer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=221098&d=1444414094

[pretre]

Stupid Warseer and no linking

[andozane]

Wow, new terrain...