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pretre

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I want my Models to look like they could actually survive a fight. That seems like it should be a higher priority for Units in a WARgame. Also, it's possible to make Armour that's still noticeably feminine without being outright boob plate. Here are a few examples.

Totally agree. But it's a GW thing. Just like how every vampire model has their fangs exposed...

 

In all honesty, GW should just work females back into the SM fluff. No good excuse for the imperium being exclusively men. I also dislike how the sisters get a weaker statline than the male version of power armor soldiers of the 41st millenium. Seems like with all that genetic modification, you should have equally burly females in with the males.

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Totally agree. But it's a GW thing. Just like how every vampire model has their fangs exposed...

 

In all honesty, GW should just work females back into the SM fluff. No good excuse for the imperium being exclusively men. I also dislike how the sisters get a weaker statline than the male version of power armor soldiers of the 41st millenium. Seems like with all that genetic modification, you should have equally burly females in with the males.

I actually have a blog post in progress about the Primarchs, Space Marines, and gender. There are some pretty interesting possibilities left open.

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I actually have a blog post in progress about the Primarchs, Space Marines, and gender. There are some pretty interesting possibilities left open.

Definitely.

 

Beyond that, provided your SM wear helmets, it would be pretty easy to have any male count as female without any real changes to the models. So for GW, they should just add it to fluff, then they could pretend that 40k SM isn't sexist and never has been. It would be so easy, and wouldn't require any real changes.

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With the whole STC construction, power armour would look like power armour. Boob army doesn't fit in so many levels except the sexist gamer realm!!

Well, the old RT 40k does have female SM models.

wd099p07rt601adventurersx-01.jpg

Top left. Another 2nd row from the bottom, 1st model from the left.

 

They're about $30 each on ebay.

 

Basically, skinnier SM..

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Sisters still have the Gothic look and the boob plates, I'm glad.

 

Totally agree. But it's a GW thing. Just like how every vampire model has their fangs exposed...

 

In all honesty, GW should just work females back into the SM fluff. No good excuse for the imperium being exclusively men. I also dislike how the sisters get a weaker statline than the male version of power armor soldiers of the 41st millenium. Seems like with all that genetic modification, you should have equally burly females in with the males.

 

Part crunch part fluff response: Sisters get T3 because they haven't been genetically modified and beefed up from their teenage years like Space Marines have.  It differentiates the armies as well; Marines are the elite strike force, Sisters (can be, and I think should be) more of a "horde of the faithful".  Power armored nuns in numbers.

 

Full fluff response: Having the Marines be a brotherhood (giant warrior monks) and the Sisters be a sisterhood (battle nuns) is a good balance of single-sex factions in 40k, and fits with the faith-and-war facet of the Imperium.  Shoehorning female Marines in would not improve 40k and would only hurt it.

 

(It also sounds like you're suggesting 40k gets an all-female army, but no all-male army counterpart.  Sounds like Segmentum No Fun Allowed.)

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I uh...WANT...my models to look like girls.  So.

 

The idea that models can only "look like girls" if their sexual characteristics are hyperemphasized is part of the problem. No one complains that Space Marines don't "look like men" because they lack enormous codpieces.

 

 

Full fluff response: Having the Marines be a brotherhood (giant warrior monks) and the Sisters be a sisterhood (battle nuns) is a good balance of single-sex factions in 40k, and fits with the faith-and-war facet of the Imperium.  Shoehorning female Marines in would not improve 40k and would only hurt it.

 

Having two different armies with different fluff is good- an army of "unenhanced" elite soldiers still wearing power armor with lower overall stats but various abilities to represent their unfailing devotion, etc, is a great contrast to the "we're good at everything but not very specialized" idea of Marines.

 

However, differentiating the armies by gender is silly and backwards, and it falls back to the old "innate differences" argument that so much sexism originates from. Eldar, Tau, Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar, etc, etc, can all have armies not composed of one gender (even if in the fluff they are always all male 100% of the time except for the ones wearing sexy bondage outfits), why not Space Marines and Sisters of Battle as well? Marines are far more akin to knights than to monks- the ascetic parts of their fluff are essentially abandoned or forgotten in the modern incarnations. So have "Sisters (and Brothers) of Battle" represent the elite of the faithful and have "Space Marines" be the enhanced warriors- you lose nothing, either in fluff or army differentiation.

 

 

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Honestly, Im not going to get too deep in the woods on this.  I love the models and how they look.  I'm a guy.  I dont need the world to be gender neutral.  I think that entire idea is stupid.  Girls are girls.  Let them be.  Guys are guys.  Let them be.  And Marines DO in fact have a codpiece.  they are male in seemingly no uncertain terms.  Which is fine.

 

To me, the aesthetic is important, not the philosophy.  If someone wants to make social statements in a war game cool but count me out.  If it attacks their sense of verisimilitude, I'll buy that too, but ti doesnt attack mine.  It just seems like an almost literal "nothing" to get too worried about.

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 I dont need the world to be gender neutral.  I think that entire idea is stupid.  Girls are girls.  Let them be.  Guys are guys.  Let them be.  And Marines DO in fact have a codpiece.  they are male in seemingly no uncertain terms.  Which is fine.

 

I guess I feel like segregating the world by gender isn't actually a great plan. Or, more accurately, it's a plan we thought was great a century or two ago but have now started to realize that maybe it's not so hot.

 

And yes, Marines do have armor over their crotch- but it isn't hyper-emphasized the way a boobplate is. You never see male models with their dicks almost hanging out; you don't see codpieces shaped to emphasize their penis and how huge it is. Male and female representation in the game are vastly different.

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Sisters still have the Gothic look and the boob plates, I'm glad.

 

Part crunch part fluff response: Sisters get T3 because they haven't been genetically modified and beefed up from their teenage years like Space Marines have.  It differentiates the armies as well; Marines are the elite strike force, Sisters (can be, and I think should be) more of a "horde of the faithful".  Power armored nuns in numbers.

 

Full fluff response: Having the Marines be a brotherhood (giant warrior monks) and the Sisters be a sisterhood (battle nuns) is a good balance of single-sex factions in 40k, and fits with the faith-and-war facet of the Imperium.  Shoehorning female Marines in would not improve 40k and would only hurt it.

 

(It also sounds like you're suggesting 40k gets an all-female army, but no all-male army counterpart.  Sounds like Segmentum No Fun Allowed.)

Regarding T3 vs T4, I understand that's the fluff, but what I'm seeing is GW establishing that PA girls aren't as strong as PA men in the 40k universe. 

 

SM used to include female SM, that's in the old fluff. Sisters of Battle is the only exclusively mono-gender army in the game with respect to old and new lore. If anything, Sisters of battle is a horribly sexist army and doesn't help GW establish 40k as a female gamer friendly setting. I don't suggest they destroy or alter the sisters of battle, but I think the other GW armies could really benefit from an increase in female representation. 

 

I'd like to see female SM mixed in with normal SM (with no discernable difference in stats or abilities). They'd still be a "brother" in respects to how the SM describe their battle brothers, they'd just be physically female. And in terms of armor, I wouldn't change a thing. Uniformity is important to an army's appearance, and I don't really think the "Male" power armor is any more suited for men than it would be for women. The Black Carapace might be a bit different, but that wouldn't affect the model itself. Just a fluffy thing, I think BA already have the heads for adding females without helmets....

 

And I'd really like to see both of those old PA female RT models get new special characters. I'd put one for CSM, and another for SM. Chaos, could also really benefit from some female additions, especially since they switched back to that one-boob slaanesh build. AoS/Fantasy is a bit better in this respect, but it is still very lacking.

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To me, pax, that's even more objectionable tokenism.

 

I am cool with Sisters and boobplate because of the grimdark, personally- the Thor "no men under arms" decree that disbanded the Frateris militia, coupled with "THESE ARE WOMEN SEE THE WOMANNESS" of their elaborate armor.

 

You're also wrong in equating Marines and Sisters flatout. It's Guard that they are intended as equivalent to, not Marines. It's disingenuous to claim "but to an outsider, they're both in power armor". Outsiders don't know what power armor is, to make the comparison.

 

40k is grimdark historic. Making it fit modern mores is frankly inappropriate- in my opinion. Just say it seems sexist to you and nove on- don't try to prove subjective statements right.

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