40K 9th ed

[Chikin]

I have a 4x8 table to play on at my house because in the first Apocalypse book it recommended that size table.

[blackvigil]

I will use 4 Kill Team mats to run the 44x60 size for most of the games at my house. It's easy to use the old normal 4x6 tables, by measuring it off. It would be easy to use 2 inch Painters Tape on either edge to narrow it to 44, and then adjust the width based on the size of the game. Done deal.

Personally, I like smaller armies on a smaller play area. This edition was made for me.

[Sgt. Rock]

Okay, I agree with blackvigil, I'm keen on the smaller armies, smaller board idea. But... why such oddball sizes? 44 x 30? Really? I mean, I get wanting a smaller board, but that's just a really weird size. Same with the others, why 44"? I think they kind of derped on that, but thankfully, as Ish says, it's just a "recommendation."

 

[Munkie]

I read the recommended table sizes as a signal that they will be selling proprietary battle mats sometime in the near future.

There isn't an otherwise good reason to so arbitrarily alter the dimensions of the battlefield.

[Ish]

Probably because whatever pre-printed map board(s) they are going to include in the boxed sets for Ninth Edition will be based on those dimensions. The map sizes for WarCry and Underworlds were both determined by the size of the maps.

A sheet of A2 sized paper is 16.5 x 23.4 in, stick four of those side by side in a two by two grid and you’ve got 33” x 46.8”...

The paper sizes used in the UK and Europe are all designed to mathematical standards where you can double the size of one of the dimensions and get the next size up. So if you “fold” an A1 sheet in half you get an A2 sheet, if you “unfold” a A5 sheet you get an A4 sheet, and so forth.

Since GW does all their printing in the UK these days, they’ll have printers designed to work with this style of paper sizing. Print a bunch of maps in A2 size, let the machines fold them into A4 size, and then they’ll fit nicely in the box.

Its how they did the maps for WarCry, Underworlds, Necromunda, etc.

[ZeroStride]

Always look first to logistics 😉

Nicely broken down @Ish

[Ish]

"Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics." - Gen. Robert H. Barrow, USMC (Commandant of the Marine Corps) 

 

[andy]

I've been looking for an excuse to replace my 4x6 with a 4x8. Onslaught on a 4x8, baby!

[Ish]

26 minutes ago, andy said:

I've been looking for an excuse to replace my 4x6 with a 4x8. Onslaught on a 4x8, baby!

Bust out your Third Edition big black book and all your trench line terrain, then play Meat Grinder.

[andy]

You got it! Need the new assault rules too, though

[Sgt. Rock]

So they mentioned, specifically, on the page for all of this something about putting together the 22" x 30" kill zone boards from Kill Team. I think that's where they're getting the oddball measurements. In a way, it's actually kind of cool, because it means you don't need a fancy battle mat or textured table to play on and have it look decent. It's just a little odd, but now that I've seen that part, I kinda like it.

[Ish]

The 22” x 30” Kill Team boards are actually slightly bigger than 22” x 30”; because they’re A1 sized sheets of paper...

[WestRider]

1 hour ago, Ish said:

The 22” x 30” Kill Team boards are actually slightly bigger than 22” x 30”; because they’re A1 sized sheets of paper...

They're actually a bit smaller than A-standard. A4 paper fits very tightly in their standard boxes (as does A3 in the starter box size), so the card battlefields they've been doing fold down to A3 or A4, minus a bit so you can slide a finger in to get it out of the box.

[Ish]

Which of course means this is all about production logistics, and not some giant conspiracy to screw over third-party battle mat manufacturers... Not that any of the chattering ninnies on Facebook, Faeit 212, or BoLs beliver me when I say it. 

[MexicanNinja]

11 hours ago, necrontyr said:

They posted recommended minimum table sizes. And of course the internet responds with outrage and hyperbole.

Uhhhh, for real.  It clearly states minimum.  I think it's genius.

Want to play your game on a 5'x10' table?  That's how you play your game on a 5'x10' table

[Ish]

I’ve come to the conclusion that the internet fanbase for WH40k is full of some very dumb people.

Obviously, the fine ladies and gentlemen of Ordo Fanaticus are the exception.

[Munkie]

6 hours ago, Ish said:

I’ve come to the conclusion that the internet fanbase for WH40k is full of some very dumb people.

Obviously, the fine ladies and gentlemen of Ordo Fanaticus are the exception.

Is there no middle ground? There's no chance that GW is trying to edge out battle mat makers and chose a logical size for the mat it wants to make?

You seem to be operating with the assumption that GW had no choice but to make a mat, and they chose this size because it's easiest.

Frankly, I find that explanation far less likely than "GW wants to establish a new line of products and chose a size that would be easy to produce".  

But maybe I'm dumb.

[scotthartman]

1 hour ago, Munkie said:

Is there no middle ground? There's no chance that GW is trying to edge out battle mat makers and chose a logical size for the mat it wants to make?

You seem to be operating with the assumption that GW had no choice but to make a mat, and they chose this size because it's easiest.

Frankly, I find that explanation far less likely than "GW wants to establish a new line of products and chose a size that would be easy to produce".  

But maybe I'm dumb.

I work in the game industry and I can say that 90% of decisions related to size and materials are based on:

1. What did we do before?

2. Is there a standard size for production?

3. Premium shelf space (box size)

4.. If we do something different then how much more will it cost.

 

Ish is right that these table numbers are based on multiples of the killteam cardboard board, which is also a standard size paper for UK.

 

I also think that players will keep playing in whatever they already have because players often use the same logic as above.

[Ish]

There is a maxim an old history professor of mine taught, he said he’d first learned in medical school: “When you hear hoof beats, look for horses and not zebras.” Apparently young doctors have a habit of looking at a set of symptoms and diagnosing strange and exotic conditions. Some weird tropical disease might be so novel that it sticks in the mind, even though the symptoms also match something commonplace.

I find this to be a pretty useful rule of thumb in most areas of life. One should never attribute to conspiracy that which is adequately explained by much more mundane matters.

Does GW want to make a buck? Of course they do. They’re a for-profit company and not a charity.

But let’s look at the last several years of GW’s history, namely, that they’ve included cardboard or heavy paper maps in WarCry, Warhammer Underworlds, Kill Team, Necromunda, various “quick start” sets for WH40k and AoS, and probably other products I’m forgetting...

Then let’s look at GW’s long term history, specifically that no previous edition of WH40k (or WHFB/AoS or LotR) has ever specifically stated a required table size. In fact, this is the first time I can recall a core rulebook ever having a suggested table size... and a minimum, not a maximum one, at that.

Lastly, let’s look at GW’s product line. They don’t sell anything like “map packs” made up of the aforementioned paper stock maps for WH40k... But they do sell multiple variations of the “Realm of Battle” board... for several hundred dollars each. These boards are all made up of 24” x 24 “ tiles and come in sets designed to make 6’ x 4’ arrangements.

Too many people are looking for zebras.

[InfestedKerrigan]

I'm hearing FLG et al are retooling their stuff for the printed size, rather than maintaining the 4x6.  Boise Cup already working on it, too.

[Ish]

1 minute ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

I'm hearing FLG et al are retooling their stuff for the printed size, rather than maintaining the 4x6.  Boise Cup already working on it, too.

That seems like a big mistake... 

[InfestedKerrigan]

FLG and NoVa do playtesting for GW, and are jumping into the reduced size. What does that say?

[andy]

6 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

FLG and NoVa do playtesting for GW, and are jumping into the reduced size. What does that say?

It says, to me, that FLG sells playmats.

[Ish]

11 minutes ago, InfestedKerrigan said:

FLG and NoVa do playtesting for GW, and are jumping into the reduced size. What does that say?

Zebra. 

4 minutes ago, andy said:

It says, to me, that FLG sells playmats.

Horse.

[blackvigil]

Seems like an "all of the above" situation. Easier logistics for a new product that they can sell us, which happens to match up with previous products. It also lets FLG and other third party companies sell us new mats, or whatever. If I owned a 4x6 mat, I'd just leave it alone, but at this point I'm certainly not buying an over sized play mat.