andozane Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Personally I still don't think they are addressing the imbalance of Vehicles Vs Wraithlord example they gave...That Wraithlord still cannot be killed from that one major shot that can destroy a tank in shot. That piece still does not make sense to me... But oh well, that is better I guess needing a 7. The whittle down effect though still bones the HP 2 vehicles :( 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Great proof reading GW... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Great proof reading GW... Could you be more vague? :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Man, I hope adamantium will gives you dispel dice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Angel Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Has any info on assaulting come to light yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doc Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Could you be more vague? :)The second word on the first image!You didn't see it??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 The second word on the first image! You didn't see it??? I did not. Could have just quoted that one then. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottshoemaker Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 I really hope Orks get their own Powers. Boom! It also seems like the mission changes make this edition more of a wargame and less of a board game. Hopefully more chances for an underdog to pull out a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Complete speculation, but warp charge pools makes me think that orks will be in a good place. I.e. more boyz equals more warp charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashneeb Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Personally I still don't think they are addressing the imbalance of Vehicles Vs Wraithlord example they gave...That Wraithlord still cannot be killed from that one major shot that can destroy a tank in shot. That piece still does not make sense to me... But oh well, that is better I guess needing a 7. The whittle down effect though still bones the HP 2 vehicles :( Umm... doesn't a D wound kill a Wraithlord outright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pretre Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Right, but a Melta shot doesn't. Which was his point, I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 At least the odds of blowing up a vehicle with a single shot are drastically reduced. The amount of AP2 and AP1 in the game isn't super high, and having only a 1-6 chance with AP2 and 1/3 chance with AP1 is much better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andozane Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Correct, Pretre read my missing marks...I was excluding D weapons from that ideal. It still bothers me that, as in Fluger's example above, those weapons still have a chance to Destroy said Tank in one shot, but no chance to destroy said Wraithlord/Riptide/WraithKnight/DreadKnight etc in one shot. But yes, it is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbitron Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Personally I still don't think they are addressing the imbalance of Vehicles Vs Wraithlord example they gave...That Wraithlord still cannot be killed from that one major shot that can destroy a tank in shot. That piece still does not make sense to me... But oh well, that is better I guess needing a 7. The whittle down effect though still bones the HP 2 vehicles :( I've heard this sort of argument before. And you are right, he cannot be killed by one shot. But he can be killed by lasgun fire. And bolter fire. Unless he's T7, then ignore the lasgun line. I don't know what the toughness of a wraithlord is.... I'm a nid player and have been in this discussion before though. And poison? Oh man. Oh man. Also consider points. I've thought about this more from the nid perspective, but most of the MCs (at least in the 5th codex) are closer to the point value of a Land Raider than other vehicles. It's a tradeoff. It's not that one is more powerful than the other. Vehicles are immune to poison and significantly more resilient to small arms (and in some cases completely immune). They are also immune to being locked down in combat (walkers excluded). They move faster. They also have rules for firing all weapons, rather than being limited to only two. And they often can cram stuff inside. That increases the value and effectiveness of those units that are embarked. MCs are better at weathering fire. They can't be shot off the table by a single melta. But they can be swarmed with missiles. Or bolter fire. Or poison. They'll only ever be able to fire two weapons. Regardless of moving. And when they do move, it's only 6". Sure they can move more, but only another d6 that takes up their shooting. You can lock them down in combat too! I like to think I've got a unique perspective. I've only ever used MCs. The one and only time I've fielded vehicles was during the OFCC when the units of the guy next to me on my team were dying and coming onto my table. I had dreads! And drop pods! I've seen MCs lose 2-3 wounds to a good volley of bolter fire. Even massed lasgun fire is extremely effective. And then I look at needing to destroy their vehicles, and I can't just toss my S3 or S4 at it and be successful. I can out maneuver them to get at the soft spot for armor, but what happens then? Anything less than S4 is completely pointless. And S4 is only marginally more effective against AV10 than it is against T6/7 MCs. The only reason it's more effective is because vehicles don't get armor saves. But it's completely negated by having one more point of armor. I like to think of it as MC/Vehicle envy. Whichever one you don't have is better. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dashneeb Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 You need STR 5 to wound a Wraithlord. However, you can tie him down for quite a long time with a guard unit, or some other cheap thing. Wraithlords went up in points considerably in the last codex. People who complain that they're not vehicles don't seem to watch too often when they die to a devastator squad or a Tau Fire Warrior unit, or a 90 point squad of Deamonettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jollyork Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Or a Nurgle guy with a Plague Sword that causes Instant Death. Lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbitron Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 You need STR 5 to wound a Wraithlord. However, you can tie him down for quite a long time with a guard unit, or some other cheap thing. Wraithlords went up in points considerably in the last codex. People who complain that they're not vehicles don't seem to watch too often when they die to a devastator squad or a Tau Fire Warrior unit, or a 90 point squad of Deamonettes. Ahhh, T8. Ok. Didn't realize it was that high. But yeah, that last sentence is the killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burk Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 The second word on the first image! You didn't see it??? what is your issue, I am totally pyschic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfestedKerrigan Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 what is your issue, I am totally pyschic Is that code for being into golden showers? Looking forward to this new edition overall with all I've been reading. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andozane Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hobbitron, excellent point. Damn, I thought I had my one thing to complain about, now I have to go back to being a 40K fanboi :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 anyone see if there are any changes to skimmers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Hanaur Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 With every passing leak I grow more and more excited. I can't wait to dig into this. My head if fairly bursting with new ideas for how to use things... Awesome stuff so far. i was way more weary of 6E, because I loved 5E. People kind of grew to dislike certain things about 6E and 6E is pretty incapable of dealing with all the new stuff that came out so 7E makes sense and as I read I grow more convinced that the Edition will work better with the codex's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Bigglesworth Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 I saw rumors changing jink to be like a flier jink save for skimmers and bikes instead of always on after moving. that is only change to skimmers I have seen, and frankly I like that change. I will like that change if I can jink without having moved, so first turn I don't have to reserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intrizic Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 I want them to be more difficult to hit in assault, the changes to hitting vehicles in assault on 3s really took the starch out of skimmers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluger Posted May 14, 2014 Report Share Posted May 14, 2014 That was like the only thing that changed in 6th that benefited melee armies. :D I'm stoked that my Fluger's Game Day will be like a nice fun foray into figuring out 7th edition as a group! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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